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Post by Once4all on Mar 27, 2010 12:20:34 GMT -5
The words we speak reflect the spirit that is in our hearts. Speaking the words of God, or speaking godly words, reflect a holy spirit (or the Holy Spirit) in us. Speaking words contrary to God reflect an evil spirit, such as when Peter spoke words against Jesus going to Jerusalem to suffer and be killed. Jesus immediately rebuked him, calling Peter "satan" (adversary) because his words were adversarial to God's will (Matthew 16:21-23).
(Matthew 15:18 NASB) "But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man.
Here are some other verses that associate spirit with words.
Job 33:3-4 NASB
(3) "My words are from the uprightness of my heart, And my lips speak knowledge sincerely.
(4) "The Spirit of God has made me, And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
(John 6:63 NASB) "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.
(Matthew 12:37 NASB) "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."
(Revelation 16:13 NASB) And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs;
Genesis 1:2-3 NASB
(2) The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
(3) Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.
(John 20:22 NASB) And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
To quote Sheldon from my signature:
"It isn't that we err in doctrine, it's that we err in character." ~Sheldon Morris
That error in character is that we fail to manifest the Holy Spirit of God within us. The fruit of our lips can be bad or it can be good.
(Matthew 12:33 NASB) "Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit.
Of course, character is not only words, but actions.
Heart --> Words --> Actions
Gotta post this before I just go on and on, like I'm prone to do!
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Post by didymus on Mar 27, 2010 19:13:04 GMT -5
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Post by Once4all on Mar 27, 2010 21:58:53 GMT -5
 Didymus!
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Post by didymus on Mar 27, 2010 22:12:03 GMT -5
Didymus! You are  Once4all |
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Post by Once4all on Mar 27, 2010 22:50:47 GMT -5
Sign language!  |
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Post by Once4all on Mar 27, 2010 22:53:55 GMT -5
Speaking of smileys holding signs, I think it was CARM that had a smiley holding a sign and the user could type any message in it he wanted to. I thought that was neat!
I don't know if they still have it. It may have been removed when people started typing long sentences and paragraphs into the sign. That's not what it's for and it sort of ruined the uniqueness of it.
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Post by Morris on Mar 29, 2010 10:59:32 GMT -5
Great post indeed, Bev! (though I might be a little bit bias). The connection between the spirit of God and breath / words is found throughout scripture. Even Jesus, who displayed the very character of the Father, is called the Word; that is, the Spirit of God communicated to us understandably.
I cannot find a difference between the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, and the Holy Spirit in Scripture.
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Post by MoGrace2U on Mar 29, 2010 12:34:40 GMT -5
This falls right in line with my study in James this past week.
James 4:5 KJV - Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
OT: Gen 6:5 - And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
James 4:6 - But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
OT: Prov 3:34 - Surely he scorneth the scorners: but he giveth grace unto the lowly.
But the LXX puts this more clearly I thought:
4:5 Or do you think that uselessly the scripture says the spirit which dwells in us longs after with envy?
-James has been speaking about the problem we have with sin that hinders our prayers is because of the wrong focus of our desires which are envious of others - therefore selfish in nature.
4:6 But He gives greater favor, therefore He says the Lord resists the proud, but to the humble He gives favor.
More Grace! That is what we need if we are to overcome sin, because the grace of God is of greater power than the sin that lies within. And James is all about how we MUST avail ourselves of His grace, recognizing why we need it & how to find it.
With no adversay standing before God to accuse us, only Jesus mediates to the Father on our behalf. And because we have put our faith in Him, grace & mercy is given when we sin which is what we need to overcome that sin. Thus our sanctification which comes by the word of God keeps us clean in His sight. This wisdom from above is what gives us the discernment we need to know the goodness of God as well as the evil nature of our sin so that we might will to do right.
Whereas those who do not learn to avail themselves of grace will
find they can do nothing but sin. Hence the way to keep faith alive is knowing our life rests in the power of Christ and by continuing to seek Him for the grace we need.
Dave Curtis, speaking on James, was wrong that a dead faith with no works to show can save. He was trying to say that a soul is saved by intellectual assent only and that one who then becomes a disciple will display good works - but such works are not necessary for salvation - only to avert chastening. I disagree! If there is no evidence that the love of God is alive and working in the believer then his assent is merely like that of the Jews who claimed God is One. And James clearly puts judgment - not mere chastening, as the result of such hypocrisy, by pointing to the coming of the Lord.
Sin brings hardness of heart, dullness of hearing, and blindness which in turn causes faith to wither and die - leaving a man religious but deceived. Because no inward change showed forth any fruit of his repentance, he becomes an empty barren vessel.
This is also found in the parable of the sower and the 4 soils. Only the one who receives the word sown and digs deep to prepare for that seed to grow, will have the fruit to show forth for which it was sown.
A living faith is kept quickened by those very fruits the indwelling love of God produces. This is the only faith that will carry us to the end. A faith that becomes dead in sin cannot deliver anyone from chastening or judgment. Therefore the wise, humble themselves and call upon the Lord all the days of their life. Whereas the proud boaster sees his new religion as only being based on his own works because his sin is deceiving him. The wise know they can do nothing without the grace of Christ and they make every effort to avail themselves of it. And their labor is not in vain since it is grace that produces the very thing for which God saved them - to be a new creature in Christ in whose sanctified heart He must dwell.
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Post by Morris on Mar 29, 2010 14:56:08 GMT -5
I was going to bring up James in my last post but didn't have time.
I believe God is interested first and foremost with your character; not in your character, but in His character in us. He calls us to be in Christ, that what we are, is because we are in Christ. As it says in 1 Cor 4:17b, "He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church."
Actions are dependent, and are driven, by character (hence the saying, "that is so like him/her"). If our character is becoming like Christ, our actions are becoming like Christ's.
James goes on to talk about submitting to God, and this is the crux of Christianity as I see it; the submission of our will to God and His Christ so that we call Him our King and Lord. We substitute our own being with that of Christ so that we in essence die and Christ lives.
If that is the case, and we have submitted to His Lordship, then His character will be evident by all we say and do. The 'fruits' will be there as a result of what we are, not because we try to do things.
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Post by Once4all on Mar 29, 2010 16:24:45 GMT -5
Thanks for those contributions to this thread, Robin and Sheldon! Good stuff!
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Post by didymus on Mar 29, 2010 16:38:31 GMT -5
With no adversay standing before God to accuse us, only Jesus mediates to the Father on our behalf. And because we have put our faith in Him, grace & mercy is given when we sin which is what we need to overcome that sin. Thus our sanctification which comes by the word of God keeps us clean in His sight. This wisdom from above is what gives us the discernment we need to know the goodness of God as well as the evil nature of our sin so that we might will to do right. Ah, but we do have an adversary. We are our own adversary, and we are accused by our own sinfulness. Think about it. Pastor Didy  |
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Post by MoGrace2U on Mar 29, 2010 17:33:27 GMT -5
Ah, but we do have an adversary. We are our own adversary, and we are accused by our own sinfulness. Think about it. Pastor Didy I have! Luke 7:35 - But wisdom is justified of all her children. Luke 1:17 - And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord. Dan 1:4 - Children in whom was no blemish, but well favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability in them to stand in the king's palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans. Dan 1:17 - As for these four children, God gave them knowledge and skill in all learning and wisdom: and Daniel had understanding in all visions and dreams. Our words may very well justify us or condemn us if we have not sought the wisdom from above which is given liberally to those who humble themselves. There will be no condemnation because of sin for those who have learned this secret of how we are to walk by faith so that sin is not our downfall. For those are who receive mercy and not chastening. Rom 8:1 - There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. |
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Post by didymus on Mar 29, 2010 20:30:27 GMT -5
So, MoGrace, What is you understanding of Numbers 32.23, and Isaiah 59.12? Professor Didy |
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Post by MoGrace2U on Mar 29, 2010 23:04:17 GMT -5
So, MoGrace, What is you understanding of Numbers 32.23, and Isaiah 59.12? Professor Didy Do you mean in light of my NT understanding? Because there is forgiveness with the Lord for those who repent. Numbers is speaking about those who do not return to the Lord, and it is their sin that will find them out. As for Isaiah, it was because of their departure from the Lord that brought their sins to bear upon them. If a NT saint is wise he will not let either ever be said of him! |
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Post by didymus on Mar 30, 2010 13:34:35 GMT -5
Robin
Are you saying then that as Christians we have no sin?
Didy
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Post by MoGrace2U on Mar 30, 2010 21:16:59 GMT -5
Robin Are you saying then that as Christians we have no sin? Didy Why would you ask that? The point is that there is a remedy for sin that we must avail ourselves of if we are to have victory over it. |
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Post by Morris on Mar 31, 2010 10:48:26 GMT -5
Robin Are you saying then that as Christians we have no sin? Didy Well, I'm not Robin, but when I read the Bible, I see that it says that even though we sin, it is not put on our record. We have died to sin when we are placed in Christ, that is, He has separated or removed us from the sin. When God sees me in Christ, He sees Christ's sinless righteousness. Here's another important fact; the only perspective of sin that exists is how it is seen by God. Even though we sin, we have no sin. God's plan of salvation through Christ is so amazing! |
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Post by Once4all on Mar 31, 2010 11:09:29 GMT -5
Well, I'm not Robin, but when I read the Bible, I see that it says that even though we sin, it is not put on our record. We have died to sin when we are placed in Christ, that is, He has separated or removed us from the sin. When God sees me in Christ, He sees Christ's sinless righteousness. Here's another important fact; the only perspective of sin that exists is how it is seen by God. Even though we sin, we have no sin. God's plan of salvation through Christ is so amazing! I have to disagree with you on this one, Sheldon. I believe we die to sin when we stop sinning. (1 Peter 2:24 NASB) and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed. How are you "living to righteousness" if you are still sinning? Now don't go and think that I am saying that I am sin-free. I am not perfected yet, but "I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus." Refresh my memory, where does it say (or from where is it derived) that God only see's Christ's sinless righteousness when He looks upon sinning Christians? |
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Post by Morris on Mar 31, 2010 14:13:48 GMT -5
Refresh my memory, where does it say (or from where is it derived) that God only see's Christ's sinless righteousness when He looks upon sinning Christians? Col 3:1-3 says, " Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory." I believe this (and many other passages) describe what being IN Christ really means from God's perspective. When we believe and confess what God through Christ has done for us, we must die to our selves (become a living sacrifice by setting aside our will for His) and in this way we are raised IN Christ. Do you realize that when are IN Christ, we partake of the "divine nature"? It's true! (2 Peter 1:4) This is why we are told to be like Christ! Paul, in Romans, expounds at length the struggle between the sin nature and the nature of God. Romans 6:6-14 says some very powerful things; " anyone who has died has been freed from [meaning 'no further to be a slave to'] sin". What is the difference between a Pharisee in Jesus' day doing their absolute best to follow the law to avoid sinning, and a person in the present day doing their absolute best to avoid sinning? Nothing. Absolutely nothing (other than the Pharisee having the law given to him). It's not a question of how often we sin, or what exactly the sin was. The question is have we ever, in our entire life, sinned? The Bible says everyone has and the penalty is death, fully and completely, period. Does God simply "forgive and forget" if we say sorry? Death is a pretty steep sentence if it can be side-stepped by simply apologizing. The penalty could not be set aside. We must die. One day our body will die, but in a sense, our 'spirit' has already died and has been replaced with Christ's (participating in the Divine Nature). I don't know if that is technical or not, but I do know that the Bible says we have died, past tense, and it isn't referring to the physical. Here's some more interesting thoughts in Rom 6:10,11, " The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus." Do you know what this says to me? Just as Jesus died once to sin, so we too ("In the same way") die to sin once, and are made alive to God. This is not a lather, rinse, repeat process. Rom 8:1 says, " Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus". Isn't it interesting that Strong's defines that word as 'an adverse sentence (the verdict)'. Note the 'Therefore', meaning because of what was said before. If we look back at what was written we'll find Paul talking about struggling with sin! Rom 7:24,25, " What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!" I don't believe the sentence of death is set aside. It is carried out, as is seen a few verses later, " And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit." Our Lord Jesus Christ has drawn us out of sin and placed us in Himself. The sentence of death still remains but when we are rescued (literally, 'to rush or draw (for oneself)') all that remains is sin. Thus Paul says that this sin now is condemned without us ("he condemned sin" and yet "there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus"). I could honestly go on and on with this simply because it just so wonderful, but I'll leave it at this for now; we still battle with sin and even lose now and then, but it was because of Christ's sacrifice " that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us", not because I am able to abstain from sinning. |
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Post by didymus on Mar 31, 2010 22:22:26 GMT -5
Robin Are you saying then that as Christians we have no sin? Didy Well, I'm not Robin, but when I read the Bible, I see that it says that even though we sin, it is not put on our record.We have died to sin when we are placed in Christ, that is, He has separated or removed us from the sin. When God sees me in Christ, He sees Christ's sinless righteousness. Here's another important fact; the only perspective of sin that exists is how it is seen by God. Even though we sin, we have no sin. God's plan of salvation through Christ is so amazing! What about unrepented sins? |
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Post by Morris on Apr 1, 2010 10:43:39 GMT -5
What about unrepented sins? What about them? What does the Bible say about them? What does "repent" even mean? Repent does not mean to ask forgiveness, it is about a change. If I am in Christ and have died to sin, have I not already decided to change? ("to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction)"). Can I really have a "struggle with sin" if I have not already repented (or think differently)? I have been taught that if I sin I am to repent of it by asking forgiveness; lather, rinse, repeat. Do you know that I cannot find in scripture where we are to "ask" for forgiveness for sin? If you can please post it. What I do find is that " ...the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin [singular]." (1 John 1:7). The blood of Jesus that was shed nearly 2000 years ago purifies me for the sin I committed several years ago, the sin I committed just last week, and even the sin I have not yet committed! We are told to "confess" our sins in 1 John 1:9, " If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness". Does "confess" equal "ask forgiveness"? Strongs defines it as "to assent, i.e. covenant, acknowledge". And what is the sentence in between those two verses? " If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." The law taught us that we have sinned, that we are sinners, and that law was put in charge to lead us to Christ. We are not without sin, but Christ is, and once we are placed in Christ we are placed under His perfect righteousness and declared innocent. That doesn't mean we are merely forgiven, but rather we are declared by God to be as if we had never committed any sin. This is God's redemptive plan. Rom 10:4, " Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes." |
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Post by Once4all on Apr 1, 2010 14:36:12 GMT -5
... We are not without sin, but Christ is, and once we are placed in Christ we are placed under His perfect righteousness and declared innocent. That doesn't mean we are merely forgiven, but rather we are declared by God to be as if we had never committed any sin. This is God's redemptive plan. Rom 10:4, " Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes." Do you consider this to be "once saved, always saved"? |
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Post by Morris on Apr 1, 2010 15:33:06 GMT -5
Do you consider this to be "once saved, always saved"? Consider Heb 6:4-6, " It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace." This tells me that a person can fall away, and that if they truly do, it is to their loss. That is a sobering thought. However, I leave it to God to judge the difference between 'falling away' and 'stumbling'. Also note that repentance isn't about 'returning' to God, it is about 'turning' to God. A change in thinking, born of faith and belief, as Paul writes in Romans 12:2, " Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will." So, once saved, I'm saved until I 'turn from' God. The security of our salvation is that nothing can remove us from His hand; yet we can walk away. If someone does walk away from God, I believe it will always begin in the mind, for as you believe so will you do. Thus Paul writes, " Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you." Phil 4:4-9" |
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Post by Morris on Apr 1, 2010 16:03:05 GMT -5
Another way to look at once saved, always saved (excluding us walking away) is that is can be viewed similarly to 'predestination' or 'the elect'. It is God's foreknowledge that ultimately knows whether we are truly saved in the end are not.
We can't fool God into being in Christ. Either we are or we are not, and He knows.
(P.S. I'm gone for the weekend so if I don't respond you'll know why.
God Bless, everyone!)
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Post by mellontes on Apr 1, 2010 16:45:26 GMT -5
... as Paul writes in Romans 12:2, " Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will." Can you elaborate further as to what you believe Paul meant by the " patterns of this world" from Romans 12:2? If you need me to give you my thoughts first before answering, I shall gladly do so upon request. I ask because I believe many (not necessarily you) have the wrong thing in mind. For so long I had been taught...(oops, that is sort of a lead in for my own thoughts and would describe the opposite to what I believe now) |
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Post by Once4all on Apr 1, 2010 19:11:31 GMT -5
Do you consider this to be "once saved, always saved"? Consider Heb 6:4-6, " It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace." This tells me that a person can fall away, and that if they truly do, it is to their loss. That is a sobering thought. However, I leave it to God to judge the difference between 'falling away' and 'stumbling'. Also note that repentance isn't about 'returning' to God, it is about 'turning' to God. A change in thinking, born of faith and belief, as Paul writes in Romans 12:2, " Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will." So, once saved, I'm saved until I 'turn from' God. The security of our salvation is that nothing can remove us from His hand; yet we can walk away. If someone does walk away from God, I believe it will always begin in the mind, for as you believe so will you do. Thus Paul writes, " Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you." Phil 4:4-9" I don't believe in OSAS and I agree with your post here, Sheldon. But I'm trying to reconcile this with your other post about God not seeing a Christian's sin. IMO, one cause of falling away is to continue in sin when you know it is wrong. |
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Post by mellontes on Apr 1, 2010 23:50:07 GMT -5
I don't believe in OSAS and I agree with your post here, Sheldon. But I'm trying to reconcile this with your other post about God not seeing a Christian's sin. IMO, one cause of falling away is to continue in sin when you know it is wrong. A former pastor of mine who was dictator of the largest independent Baptist church in all of Canada committed suicide in the summer of last year. Did he lose his salvation upon committing an act that he knew was definite sin (murder)? www.fundamentalforums.com/crown-college/69350-greg-baker-offed-himself-5.html |
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Post by Morris on Apr 2, 2010 10:40:50 GMT -5
Can you elaborate further as to what you believe Paul meant by the " patterns of this world" from Romans 12:2? If you need me to give you my thoughts first before answering, I shall gladly do so upon request. I ask because I believe many (not necessarily you) have the wrong thing in mind. For so long I had been taught...(oops, that is sort of a lead in for my own thoughts and would describe the opposite to what I believe now) I already know what you believe these patterns to be, mellontes! I've read your book, remember?  While I agree that it is included in that concept, it goes far beyond that. Romans was written to more than just Jewish converts to Christ. (I don't have much time so I'm forced to be very short, sorry) |
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Post by Morris on Apr 2, 2010 10:58:48 GMT -5
I don't believe in OSAS and I agree with your post here, Sheldon. But I'm trying to reconcile this with your other post about God not seeing a Christian's sin. IMO, one cause of falling away is to continue in sin when you know it is wrong. If someone is continuing in a sin, and they don't "feel compunction" about it enough to change (remembering Strong's definition of 'repent'), then can they truly be repentent? Some of the problems relating to formulating doctrines of salvation (such as OSAS) is that it is based on human judgments of who is, or is not, saved. We can be fooled by people performing 'religion'; God is not fooled. That is how I would answer mellontes comment about that pastor committing suicide. We don't know what was in his heart and mind. A person can do the right things and yet not be right. Religion can be nothing more than a way of life, something that provides structure, pattern, and even a sense of satisfaction, but that does not mean a person is right with God. That is why I don't refer true Christianity as a religion but rather as a personal relationship; it is compared to marriage, we are IN Christ, how much more personal does it get? Even Jesus declared this to be all about relationship; Love God, and love those around you. Everything centers on relationships of love. That was alot more than I intended to say! Have a great weekend folks! |
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Post by Allyn on Apr 2, 2010 11:48:24 GMT -5
Do you consider this to be "once saved, always saved"? Consider Heb 6:4-6, " It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace." This tells me that a person can fall away, and that if they truly do, it is to their loss. That is a sobering thought. However, I leave it to God to judge the difference between 'falling away' and 'stumbling'. Also note that repentance isn't about 'returning' to God, it is about 'turning' to God. A change in thinking, born of faith and belief, as Paul writes in Romans 12:2, " Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will." So, once saved, I'm saved until I 'turn from' God. The security of our salvation is that nothing can remove us from His hand; yet we can walk away. If someone does walk away from God, I believe it will always begin in the mind, for as you believe so will you do. Thus Paul writes, " Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you." Phil 4:4-9" I have a more simplistic view of this Hebrews passage. I think that yes it is impossible to be brought back after having left those things once enjoyed but it is not impossible with God because with God all things are possible. I think we tend to take passages such as in Hebrews to help support a view we already wish were true. There are far many other places in Scripture that show the restoration of a fallen people that I don't think we should take one to mean something that seems to contradict the others. |
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