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Post by stormcrow on Jan 7, 2014 4:34:42 GMT -5
While full preterism is certainly the most logical view that explains ALL of prophetic scripture, it seems that some sites have engaged in efforts to quash all discussion of it, as noted here:
Note the not-so-subtle insinuation that full preterists are not Christians!
Obviously, the owner of a website has control over what his or her website will allow, but there is a disturbing, almost cult-like fanaticism that accompanies the Dispensationalist/Futurist mindset that is both unsettling and un-Christian.
If these people are so convinced of the validity of their beliefs, why outlaw opposing points of view?
When you have the facts on your side, you welcome debate and discussion. When you don't, you do everything you can to discourage it. That is where the Dispy/Futurist camp is today.
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Post by Morris on Jan 10, 2014 11:23:59 GMT -5
What I find alarming is that all views/factions are tending towards the "we're right, you're a heretic" attitude - as a generalization, but there are always exceptions within those groups. I've encountered it from futurists, preterists, hybrids, lowbrids, etc.
Discussion is great *if* both sides are looking to learn about what the other believes. The issue is that the two sides are usually trying to win an argument by 'converting' the other to the 'right' side by presenting facts and proof-texts, while neither is interested in changing their viewpoints. It just leads to heads banging against each other. And in all my years of participating in Christian discussion forums I have never seen someone convinced to change from one main position to another.
From that perspective I can see why a forum might resort to restricting certain types of discussion; heated conflict is far outweighing any beneficial enlightenment, and that can be very detrimental to the community's feeling of brotherhood. That is why I made this forum my forum of choice for discussion - I found that I shared enough views to have some common ground while at the same time open to discussing differing viewpoints in an attitude of brotherly fellowship.
The most important thing in my mind is how one responds to this as a Christian. It can either be in kind, showing the same attitude and contempt, or it can be in charity and respect to brothers in Christ to allow them to choose what they wish to discuss.
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Post by stephenpatrick on Jan 13, 2014 7:48:38 GMT -5
What I find alarming is that all views/factions are tending towards the "we're right, you're a heretic" attitude - as a generalization, but there are always exceptions within those groups. I've encountered it from futurists, preterists, hybrids, lowbrids, etc. Discussion is great *if* both sides are looking to learn about what the other believes. The issue is that the two sides are usually trying to win an argument by 'converting' the other to the 'right' side by presenting facts and proof-texts, while neither is interested in changing their viewpoints. It just leads to heads banging against each other. And in all my years of participating in Christian discussion forums I have never seen someone convinced to change from one main position to another. From that perspective I can see why a forum might resort to restricting certain types of discussion; heated conflict is far outweighing any beneficial enlightenment, and that can be very detrimental to the community's feeling of brotherhood. That is why I made this forum my forum of choice for discussion - I found that I shared enough views to have some common ground while at the same time open to discussing differing viewpoints in an attitude of brotherly fellowship. The most important thing in my mind is how one responds to this as a Christian. It can either be in kind, showing the same attitude and contempt, or it can be in charity and respect to brothers in Christ to allow them to choose what they wish to discuss. Good morning Stormcrow and Morris. I'm one that did become convinced of the fulfilled viewpoint and changed from being a futurist to a preterist. And it was at this forum that was the biggest help to me. I didn't come here for that, but it didn't just happen over night. I was disillusioned with dispy viewpoint and failed predictions of 25 years of books I read. It took a couple of years and some very difficult studies for me to admit that I was wrong. Allyn, Ted, Mograce, and many others were very patient with me and the myriad of questions I asked. I wasn't made to feel like a heel because I just didn't get it. I think it's difficult for anyone to admit they've been wrong for most of their life on this topic. Nobody wants to be called a heretic. |
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Post by Morris on Jan 14, 2014 9:44:16 GMT -5
Hi Stephen!
The difference between you and the vast majority of people that frequent Christian forums is that you were searching - you could sense that something wasn't quite right in material you had been reading and that there must be answers out there. I can relate because I went through a very similar journey (although mine was through reading other books and not online).
I'm taking the liberty of assuming I understand your journey here, but most people on these kinds of forums aren't searching out of a sense of "disillusion"ment for answers. Rather, most are around to argue that their view is right and convince others of that fact. True discussion is rare.
While people like us have indeed changed our views, it wasn't through people convincing us of our error despite us being confident in those views. We both were already unsure of our dispensationalist views.
So when I say that "I have never seen someone convinced to change from one main position to another" on a forum, I'm saying that I've never seen someone who, confidently arguing for their foundational view, has been persuaded to change from that view by the person they were arguing against. Just like with our experiences, that kind of a change is often years in the making and begins with dissatisfaction of the view existing.
Your story shows a very good approach to discussing preterism with those of differing views; when finding someone on another forum that is curious/interested in discussing or learning about the view, perhaps the best thing might be to invite them to this or another forum where the discussion can occur without harassment (to either side).
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Post by Allyn on Jan 29, 2014 17:33:28 GMT -5
I'm pleased to see this forum still be used. I'm sorry that I have been absent, and I may continue to be absent for a while or more. My site building chores have become the issue and though I hope to complete what I'm doing before spring. I can't say for sure.
FYI I have installed a real good social network. Preteristvoice.org is now that network. I encourage you all to join as members, there. Though we have many discussions stored here, I plan to download them in order to preserve them. Pro-boards has made many changes and some not for the good, so even though I hope I won't have to, I may need to phase this forum out.
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