World / The "Ten Lost Tribes" / Gentiles?

[Morris]

I'm bringing this over from an introduction tread found here. I had a number of questions and points that were never addressed and so this tread can be used to discuss the topic. Please see that previous thread for more background detail.


First:
It was said to me that, "Surely you are aware that the Gospel had to be preached to all of the Jewish nations because it was to the Jew FIRST, right?"

[Comments and then my questions follow] Scripture (Romans 1:16) says that it was to the Jew (singular) first, then also to the Greek (singular). This is important. There is no basis for saying "Jewish nations" at all, or we could just as rightly say "Jewish individuals". If we assume that all the Jewish individuals or nations had to hear the Gospel first, then it occurred instantly on one occasion.

Acts 10:45,
"And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles [nations] also". It says literally 'on the nations [plural] the gratuity of the Holy Spirit has been poured out [perfect past]'.

This is repeated in Acts 11:1,
"Now the apostles and brethren who were in Judea heard that the Gentiles ['nations', plural] had also received the word of God".

So, all the Jewish "nations" were preached the Gospel when Cornelius, "a centurion of what was called the Italian Regiment", received the Holy Spirit?


Second:
Regarding the three judgment passages of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, the judgment was mainly Jewish in nature.
However, the judgment came (was executed) by who? By who was Jerusalem to be trodden down? It says "Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles [nations] until the times of the Gentiles [nations] are fulfilled". Were the nations/tribes of Israel the ones who were supposed to trample Jerusalem until the times of the nations/tribes of Israel were fulfilled?


Third:
Acts 14:1,2, "Now it happened in Iconium that they went together to the synagogue of the Jews, and so spoke that a great multitude both of the Jews and of the Greeks believed. But the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles [nations] and poisoned their minds against the brethren."
The words for "Jews" and "Greeks" here are the same as the ones in Romans 1:16, "for the Jew first and also for the Greek". But notice this in verse 2, the "Jews" stirred up "the nations" against the "brethren"; those "brethren" were the believing Jews and Greeks. If "the nations" are Jews outside of Judea (diaspora), how can Paul say what he said? How can we have both Jews and nations distinguished if they are supposed to be the same? How can we have the the gospel preached to the Greeks when it is only supposed to be for the nations?

If we assume that the "Jews" here are those from Judea (Jews meaning Judeans), and that they stirred up the non-Judean Israelite "lost" tribes in Iconium, how can Paul confuse his terminology and say that "Jews" of Iconium believed if he really meant "non-Judean nations/tribes of Israel/gentiles"?


Fourth:
I searched high and low to find any scripture that speaks of ten lost tribes. I found none. I have read that the dispersion of these ten lost tribes became the Gentiles of the New testament. However, I then read John 7:35, "Then the Jews said among themselves, “Where does He intend to go that we shall not find Him? Does He intend to go to the Dispersion among the Greeks and teach the Greeks?"

It says the Dispersion is among the Greeks, not that it 'is the Greeks'. Plus, they speak of Him teaching the Greeks, not the Dispersion. Doesn't this make a distinction between the Dispersion and the Greeks? Do we have any scripture that shows us that ten lost tribes are the Dispersion?

Here's one, James 1:1, "James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad: Greetings". Wait, it says literally, 'to the twelve tribes the in the dispersion'. How can we make claims that the gentiles are ten lost tribes of the dispersion when scripture says explicitly "twelve"?


Thanks for any discussion.

[Once4all]

Sheldon, thanks for moving this from the Introduction forum. Now we just have to hope that the others involved will check the forums sometime soon and find it! Or maybe even some new members will join in. I think you raised some very good questions, with points that appear to make the answer obvious.

[Morris]

Thanks for the comments, Bev. I have done a fair bit of reading here as of late, and I'm finding that there are many, many times where I have made points or questioned someone's assertion or claim, and not had it addressed. Yet the claims continued, and in fact, was usually left to answer more of the other person's questions. I don't mind answering questions as it gets me into the Word even more, but I like to have mine addressed as well.

Perhaps the main thing I've questioned most recently is when someone redefines a word to mean, or refer to, something else.

[Once4all]

Sheldon, do you have a Facebook page? That seems to be where all the discussion is happening anymore. Seriously.

It's sad that the forum is being abandoned for Facebook because FB is not really designed for discussions.

[Morris]

I was on Facebook several years ago but deleted my account. I felt like I was constantly being 'spammed' by friends and it was too much of a time-sink.

[Morris]

Here's another one simply because I think it is very strong.

Fifth:
I have read that the 10 Northern Tribes, collectively referred to as "the House of Israel", became the Gentiles and that this also included the Samaritans (Samaria having been the capital of the nation of Israel and the name of the region during captivity).

How can we say that the House of Israel became the Gentiles and included the Samaritans, when Jesus specifically said that Gentiles and Samaritans were not the lost of the House of Israel?

Matthew 10:5,6,
"These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel"."