We are caught away in individually in succession

[Jack]

Literal translation of 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17:

"For the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first,

afterwards we who are living, who are remaining over, shall be caught away to join them (NEB) through the clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be."

TO ALL,

There are many who erroneously who think that Paul taught that the the living saints in this passage will be caught away simultaneously with the dead after they are raised. This cannot be possible because he said that the living saints are caught away "afterwards."

So why do so many christians think that the living saints are caught away simultaneously with the dead after they are raised? There are two reasons:

1. Because most translations wrongly render the Greek hama in English as "together with" giving the impression that the living saints are caught away simultaneously with the dead after they are raised.

2. Because they wrongly think that the Greek hama means "at the same time."

It is true that hama may mean "at the same time" but only when used as a particle. When it is used as an adverb it denotes simple association by joining without any reference to simultaneousness (see Strong's# 260).

Paul used hama to translate the Hebrew yachad which means "to become united." Yachad has no reference to simultaneousness at all.

Psalm 14:3:

"They have all turned aside,
They have together [yachad] become corrupt;
There is none who does good,
No, not one."


Romans 3:12:

"They have all turned aside;
They have together [hama][/b] become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one."[/color]

David was speaking about the fool of his day who had become corrupt because he said "there is no God." Paul applied it to the Jew and the Gentile in his time who had become unprofitable. The sinner of Paul's time did not become decadent simultaneously with the fool in David's day. Though they had become decadent "together" it was not at the same time. They became decadent "together" in the sense that they became united or joined to each other in their decadence.

This is what Paul meant in 1 Thessalonians 4. He meant that we each will be caught away individually to join the resurrected saints in heaven but each in our own succession of time. When I die I will be caught away to join the resurrected saints. The next thing I know I will be in my body from heaven which the resurrected saints now have (2 Cor. 4:16-5:5). My earthly body will have no part in my being caught away. When Raggthyme's time comes she will be caught away to join the resurrected saints and the next thing she will know is that she will be in her body from heaven. The same is true of each of us individually.

We will each be caught away individually in our own succession of time and not at the same time. Our earthly bodies will NOT have a part in it at all. There will be no mass disappearances of people's bodies. Each of us will be caught away to join the resurrected saints in our body from heaven. Our loved ones will take care of the body we leave behind.

Jack

[shawn]

Id like to post a small excerpt out of one of the chapters that was written by my father. It talks a little about the resurrection of the dead and then the living. You can read the whole article here www.christrevealed.net/dayoflord.html

"....But this I say unto you, that “God having provided some better thing for us (“the living”), that they (“concerning them which are asleep...which sleep in Jesus”: Study “those”...“having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise”, of Heb. chap. 11; Heb. 11:39) without us (“we which are alive and remain”) should not be made perfect” (Heb. 11:40). “For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord”, for “the dead in Christ”, did indeed, “rise first” (“with Christ”, and their life also, “is hid with Christ in God”: Study Col. 3:1-3; 1 Thess. 4:18), which was “the first principles (“of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of [the] resurrection of the dead”...“from death unto life”, which “shall not come into condemnation”: Jn. 5:24; Rom. 6:13; 1 Jn. 3:14) of the oracles of God”. “Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ (that is, “the first principles of the oracles of God”: Heb. 5:12), let us go on unto perfection” (Heb. 6:1, 2).

For “whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath (not THREE, but...) both the Father and the Son”, as one “flame of fire”, being signified by “cloven (One flame with two, or, “both”...) tongues like as of fire, and it (“the Holy Ghost”) sat upon each of them” (Acts 2:1-4), in that “both the Father and the Son”...”are one Spirit” (Jn. 10:30), that is to say, “that one and the selfsame Spirit” (1 Cor. 12:11), which “sat upon each of them” (“And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost”; “and I think also that I have the Spirit of God”: Acts 2:4; 1 Cor. 7:40), for “in the last days (that is, “once in the end of the world”), saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit (or, “Ghost”; “But this spake he of the Spirit [or, “the Holy Ghost”], which they that believe on him should receive”...“Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive”: Cf. Lk. 23:46; Jn. 7:39; 14:17) upon all flesh (“and it sat upon each of them”)...And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my (“Holy”) Spirit”.

“And it shall come to pass (following these events, “wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke...before that great and notable day of the Lord come”, referring of course, to his “second” coming...“unto them that look for him...unto salvation”: Heb. 9:28 ), that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved” (Acts 2:16-21), that is to say, that “it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem (that is, “mount Sion...the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem”: Study Heb. 12:18-24) shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant (“of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ”: Rev. 12:17) whom the Lord shall call” (Joel 2:28-32), that is to say, “who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory” (1 Thess. 2:12), which is indeed, “the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ” (Rev. 1:9), which in turn, is “the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins” (Col. 1:12-14). ...."

[shawn]

Id like to post a small excerpt out of one of the chapters that was written by my father. It talks a little about the resurrection of the dead and then the living. You can read the whole article here www.christrevealed.net/dayoflord.html

"....But this I say unto you, that “God having provided some better thing for us (“the living”), that they (“concerning them which are asleep...which sleep in Jesus”: Study “those”...“having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise”, of Heb. chap. 11; Heb. 11:39) without us (“we which are alive and remain”) should not be made perfect” (Heb. 11:40). “For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord”, for “the dead in Christ”, did indeed, “rise first” (“with Christ”, and their life also, “is hid with Christ in God”: Study Col. 3:1-3; 1 Thess. 4:18), which was “the first principles (“of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of [the] resurrection of the dead”...“from death unto life”, which “shall not come into condemnation”: Jn. 5:24; Rom. 6:13; 1 Jn. 3:14) of the oracles of God”. “Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ (that is, “the first principles of the oracles of God”: Heb. 5:12), let us go on unto perfection” (Heb. 6:1, 2).
For “whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath (not THREE, but...) both the Father and the Son”, as one “flame of fire”, being signified by “cloven (One flame with two, or, “both”...) tongues like as of fire, and it (“the Holy Ghost”) sat upon each of them” (Acts 2:1-4), in that “both the Father and the Son”...”are one Spirit” (Jn. 10:30), that is to say, “that one and the selfsame Spirit” (1 Cor. 12:11), which “sat upon each of them” (“And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost”; “and I think also that I have the Spirit of God”: Acts 2:4; 1 Cor. 7:40), for “in the last days (that is, “once in the end of the world”), saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit (or, “Ghost”; “But this spake he of the Spirit [or, “the Holy Ghost”], which they that believe on him should receive”...“Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive”: Cf. Lk. 23:46; Jn. 7:39; 14:17) upon all flesh (“and it sat upon each of them”)...And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my (“Holy”) Spirit”.

“And it shall come to pass (following these events, “wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke...before that great and notable day of the Lord come”, referring of course, to his “second” coming...“unto them that look for him...unto salvation”: Heb. 9:28 ), that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved” (Acts 2:16-21), that is to say, that “it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem (that is, “mount Sion...the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem”: Study Heb. 12:18-24) shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant (“of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ”: Rev. 12:17) whom the Lord shall call” (Joel 2:28-32), that is to say, “who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory” (1 Thess. 2:12), which is indeed, “the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ” (Rev. 1:9), which in turn, is “the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins” (Col. 1:12-14). ...."

[Morris]

Hi Shawn. I'm not sure I followed what was being said. I got most of the connections, I believe, but I'm not sure what was done with them.