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Post by Guest1 on Oct 8, 2011 11:20:27 GMT -5
What is the proper context of Romans 10:18 in the following passage? Futurist and preterist perspectives welcome...
Romans 10:13-18 - For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.[/b]
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Post by Once4all on Oct 8, 2011 17:24:02 GMT -5
What is the proper context of Romans 10:18 in the following passage? Futurist and preterist perspectives welcome... Romans 10:13-18 - For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.[/b] [/quote] Your question seems to me to be asking about the scope or definition of "earth" and "world." Is this the whole planet? No, I don't believe so. The immediate view is (the people of) Israel first, and then beyond to the Gentiles. When Paul wrote in Colossians 1:23 that the gospel had been proclaimed in all creation, he did not mean the whole planet. Colossians 1:23 NASB (23) if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister. In just letting my thoughts flow freely here, the scriptural ramifications of this would be that Jesus' command to "go into all the world and preach the gospel" was completed in the first century, as Paul indicated in Colossians 1:23. (Com)Mission complete, Sir! Does that mean that the gates to the kingdom of God are closed? I don't believe so. But the task of making notification to the old covenant believers that the Messiah had come was carried out. |
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Post by Guest1 on Oct 8, 2011 18:09:53 GMT -5
Actually, I am more concerned about "their sound" and "their words" that went forth - although I do not at all deny the secondary importance (to me) of "earth" and "world" here. It is the context of verses 13-17 that interests me. I figure verse 18 must be considered in light of the understanding of those previous verses.
We see the OT quotes of Isaiah 52:7 and Nahum 1:15 being used in Romans 10:15.
We also see the OT quote of Isaiah 53:1 being used in Romans 10:16.
I understand the context of those OT verses to be speaking of individuals proclaiming the word of God, whether it be salvation, peace, blessing or promise, or even some other thing.
Once4all, are you saying that Romans 10:18 is in regard to people preaching the Gospel, or at least the word of God? I would agree if that is your stance.
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Post by Once4all on Oct 9, 2011 0:17:54 GMT -5
Actually, I am more concerned about "their sound" and "their words" that went forth - ... Once4all, are you saying that Romans 10:18 is in regard to people preaching the Gospel, or at least the word of God? I would agree if that is your stance. Yes. Although Psalm 19, from which the quote seems to be from, in order to relate directly, would have to be couched in metaphor. Psalms 19:1-4 NASB (1) For the choir director. A Psalm of David. The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands. (2) Day to day pours forth speech, And night to night reveals knowledge. (3) There is no speech, nor are there words; Their voice is not heard. (4) Their line has gone out through all the earth, And their utterances to the end of the world. In them He has placed a tent for the sun, Verse 3—that there is no speech or words—supports the nature or creation interpretation, that the heavens and their expanse are literal and not metaphors for persons. Verses 3 and 4 almost seem contradictory. One says there is no speech or words ("something said," Strongs H561) and the other says that their utterances ("a word or discourse," Strongs H4405) have gone out to the end of the world. Let me know if I'm still off-track with the intent of your post. |
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Post by Guest1 on Oct 9, 2011 9:20:31 GMT -5
Actually, I am more concerned about "their sound" and "their words" that went forth - ... Once4all, are you saying that Romans 10:18 is in regard to people preaching the Gospel, or at least the word of God? I would agree if that is your stance. Yes. Although Psalm 19, from which the quote seems to be from, in order to relate directly, would have to be couched in metaphor. Psalms 19:1-4 NASB (1) For the choir director. A Psalm of David. The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands. (2) Day to day pours forth speech, And night to night reveals knowledge. (3) There is no speech, nor are there words; Their voice is not heard. (4) Their line has gone out through all the earth, And their utterances to the end of the world. In them He has placed a tent for the sun, Verse 3—that there is no speech or words—supports the nature or creation interpretation, that the heavens and their expanse are literal and not metaphors for persons. Verses 3 and 4 almost seem contradictory. One says there is no speech or words ("something said," Strongs H561) and the other says that their utterances ("a word or discourse," Strongs H4405) have gone out to the end of the world. Let me know if I'm still off-track with the intent of your post. I believe Psalm 19 IS couched in metaphor and should not be taken literally for physical creation - although I do not deny that physical creation DOES declare the glory of god, even though futurists believe otherwise. Side note: Futurists cannot believe physical creation declares the glory of God because they believe it is tainted with sin and will be restored some time in the future. But we know that physical creation is not going to be redeemed from sin. It is the old creation that gets redeemed from sin. This old creation becomes the new creation in Christ. Was it not the old creation's responsibility to spread the Word of God? Are we (Christians) the NEW heaven and earth and the NEW creation. Is it not our duty to proclaim God's glory to others? Psalm 19 is not about physical creation, IMO. www.newcreationministries.tv/Articles/Psalm19p1.htm is another brief article on this exact topic which I just discovered today |
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Post by Morris on Oct 9, 2011 22:30:09 GMT -5
I only have a brief moment here to comment (having a busy Thanksgiving weekend up here in Canada).
First, the context is mainly speaking of the gentiles as Romans 10:10-13 makes the transition to include them.
"For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.” "
Paul points out that "whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame", and as if to reinforce that "whoever", he makes it clear that it is Jew or Greek; it doesn't matter. If a Greek "calls on the name of the LORD" he says that he "shall be saved".
Next verse, (14) Paul then poses some questions regarding the Greeks; "How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?" He already established in chapter 3 that the Jews had the advantage "because to them were committed the oracles of God". There were Jews that believed because they had heard the word of God. Furthermore, he points out that hearing isn't enough; faith must be exercised to believe.
In verse 18, Paul says that "their sound", "the gospel of peace", the "glad tidings of good things", has been sent out to them and they are hearing. I don't believe that this is saying that everyone has heard already, but rather that the gospel has been sent out to everyone regardless of Jew or Gentile.
Continue in verse 19 and 20 and we'll see that Paul says Israel was already told that "the sound" of God's word would go out to the gentiles and that they would find Him! It's as if to say 'why are you surprised'?
Then Paul contrasts the response of the Gentiles to God's word with the response of Israel, "But to Israel he says: “All day long I have stretched out My hands to a disobedient and contrary people.” ".
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