Post by Once4all on Sept 21, 2011 23:30:17 GMT -5
Earlier this year I read the book Love Wins by Rob Bell. I made several notes while reading the book, with the intent of writing a review. Unfortunately, I never got around to writing that review, but thought I'd share my notes here in case anyone is interested.
A page number is referenced, along with just a snippet of text, followed by my note. The "Loc" (Location) number is a Kindle reference, since I read the book on and wrote my notes on my Kindle.
________________
Page 10/Loc 195. "Nor did John, Peter, James, or the woman who wrote the Letter to the Hebrews."
Note: LOL. I will have to do some checking to see where he pulled that one from... the woman who wrote Hebrews.
Page 68/Loc 880. "When they fought, their teeth would make a gnashing sound."
Note: This sounds too convenient. In the NT, aren't angry people also described as gnashing their teeth?
Page 71/Loc 916. "literal hell? Of course. Those aren’t metaphorical missing arms and legs."
Note: So he believes something is metaphorical simply because he does not see it?
Page 72/Loc 932. "are that free. We can use machetes if we want to."
Note: But in the Bible, people don't send other people to hell. Author is describing an earthly hell as he sees it. If he then uses his own conception of hell to disprove a biblical hell, he has built a strawman.
Page 73/Loc 941. "so worked up about. Other times he sounds just plain violent."
Note: But Jesus is talking about the consequences for the person who committed the sin, that THAT person would end up in hell. Bell's description, however, places the VICTIMS of someone's sin in hell.
Page 76/Loc 973. "reject Jesus, the very movement of God in flesh and blood."
Note: Interesting that he refers to Jesus as the "movement of God" rather than God himself. This is not inconsistent with unitarian belief and Jesus being the IMAGE or REPRESENTATION of God.
Page 76/Loc 976. "outside their gates. To reject those Lazaruses was to reject God."
Note: While the last statement is true--to reject helping the poor is a rejection of God--isn't that a given in the story? Isn't the substance of the story about the consequences of that action? Bell seems to be redirecting the reader to a secondary issue to avoid dealing with the primary message.
Page 79/Loc 1008. "can only assume we can do the same in the next."
Note: Bell states that Jesus teaches about dying a kind of death in this life so that one can live (that would be dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus), BUT THEN he states that the rich man died a different kind of death (but not, supposedly, a physical death because the story, according to Bell, is not teaching about life after physical death). But where is this other kind of death one can die described by Jesus? It is those who are already dead in their sins who Jesus is there to save. Bell's scenario has this story targeting the righteous, warning them to not choose to become unrighteous, rather than a story meant to urge sinners to repent.
Page 79/Loc 1012. "is hell later, and Jesus teaches us to take both seriously."
Note: In these two short phrases, Bell tries to equate the hell that Jesus urges people to avoid getting thrown into is simply a societal breakdown in morality caused by individual evil acts. I think the Bible calls this persecution and a consequence of living among sinners.
Page 81/Loc 1029. "they’re intent on going. The Romans, he keeps insisting, will crush you."
Note: Where does Jesus talk about not going to war against Rome? Yes, he is against violence and war, but Bell makes it sound like Jesus was a political figure organizing some kind of sit-in for peace.
Page 82/Loc 1049. "their God-given calling and identity to show the world God’s love."
Note: Okay, this point is a good one. Jesus himself said that he came only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Page 83/Loc 1054. "the world what God’s love looks like in flesh and blood."
Note: So far, so good--with this concept.
Page 84/Loc 1069. "Ezekiel says that where there was destruction there will be restoration."
Note: Yes, it is called repentence. Continue reading into Ezekiel chapter 17 and 18.
Page 84/Loc 1075. "Sodom and Gomorrah than them on judgment day? There’s still hope?
Note: The point was not to imply hope for Sodom and Gomorrah, but to highlight the gravity of the situation of those he was speaking to.
Page 86/Loc 1100. "no longer rebuke you, but will rejoice over you with singing.”
Note: This is Zeph 3.17. Look to earlier verses to see who it refers to. Verses 11 and 12 say that God removes the proud and leaves the humble. Verse 13 says the REMNANT of Israel will do no wrong. Verse 15 says that God has TAKEN AWAY their judgments and REMOVED their enemies. It is the righteous remnant whom God rejoices over in verse 17.
Page 87/Loc 1110. "their God will care for them; he will restore their fortunes.”
Note: For the REMNANT..Zephaniah 2:7
Page 87/Loc 1115. "and hurl all our iniquities into the depths of the sea.”
Note: This is Micah 7.19. Verse 18 identifies those it is about... He passes over the rebellious act of the REMNANT of His possession.
Page 88/Loc 1128. "where people worshipped. They’ll worship God in . . . Egypt?
Note: It helps to read the whole chapter of Isaiah 19. In verses 1 through 16 the God of Israel smites Egypt so completely that in verse 17 it says that the land of Judah will become a terror to them. Judah has conquered Egypt and that is why there is an altar to the LORD in Egypt, verses 18 and 19.
Page 91/Loc 1159. "result, Paul is convinced, is that wrongdoers will become right doers."
Note: Yes, the goal is for their repentence. As Egypt in your example above, by turning them over to adversity they will be conquered/humbled and come to worship God in His power.
Page 91/Loc 1166. "or 'a time of trimming,' or an intense experience of correction."
Note: THIS is interesting! If those are the correct Greek words and meaning, then this would change my whole outlook on this sheep and goats passage.
Page 92/Loc 1176. "days later, brought him out of the belly of the fish."
Note: Hmm. Jonah thought it was forever. Think "you will not leave my soul in Hades."
Page 92/Loc 1177. "fish. Olam, in this instance, turns out to be three days."
Note: See my note just above.
Page 97/Loc 1211. is “mighty,” “powerful,” “loving,” “unchanging,” “sovereign,” “full of grace and mercy,”
Note: But also keep in mind that the Bible states explicitly in several places that God shows grace and mercy "to those who love Him."
Page 98/Loc 1226. "of people, not totally great. Sort of great. A little great.
Note: Bell mocks God. Earlier he said something mocking predestination, now he wants to ignore free will.
Page 99/Loc 1237. "we not all have one Father? Did not one God create us?"
Note: Again, Bell ignores context. His quote here is from Malachhi 2.10, but Malachi is written to the priests, the Levites. From chapter 2 verse 1 all the way through verse 9 that is made crystal clear.
Page 99/Loc 1247. "ends of the earth will see the salvation of our God”
Note: This is getting tiring. The verse Bell quotes is Isaiah 52.10. The context is when God frees His captive people from the bondage of Egypt. The text does NOT mean that all will RECEIVE the salvation of God, but that they will witness how God will save His people.
Page 99/Loc 1250. ". and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is LORD,"
Note: No, It does NOT say that Jesus Christ is YHWH! Bell does not handle scripture responsibly; why did I waste my money? Hopefully, so that others will read this and realize Bell's deception.
Page 103/Loc 1296. "shot, and sometimes you just have to be okay with failure”?
Note: What is this called? It's some kind of logical falacy.
Page 108/Loc 1350. "glory; eternal torment doesn’t. Reconciliation brings God glory; endless anguish doesn’t."
Note: God executing judgment also brings God glory. See Ezekiel 28:20-24 and 39:1-13.
Page 108/Loc 1353. "because God’s love will eventually melt even the hardest of hearts."
Note: Here he brings in Calvinism again with appealing to irresistible grace (the I in TULIP), though Bell universalizes it.
Page 108/Loc 1357. "earlier, I could have done something. But now, it’s too late.”
Note: Huh? This is called repentence and God will not turn away the truly repentent (Ezekiel 18). Is Bell going to make a case for this happening after death?
Page 113/Loc 1408. "from those who would insist on continuing to perpetuate those evils."
Note: True. Those things are OUTSIDE the kingdom of God.
Page 115/Loc 1427. "are never shut, then people are free to come and go.
Note: Yes, and in the preterist paradigm, those gates are open now and always. As long as the earth endures and people populate it, the gates are open to those who want to enter. Those inside "go" when they turn away from God, and enter again when they repent. Those who never turn to God remain outside in darkness.
Page 120/Loc 1482. "says yes, we can have what we want, because love wins."
Note: He's talking about the blessings of repentence here and I agree.
Page 129/Loc 1584. "to communicate this epic event in ways their listeners could grasp."
Note: Wait a minute. Is Bell saying that the "metaphor" of sacrifice in the NT was just the first Christians being relevant to their time? Hello? What of the entire Old Testament?!
Page 131/Loc 1605. "new ones; we have entirely new skin every week or so."
Note: Check accuracy. I thought I read recently that the cell and skin thing was not quite as rapid as this.
Page 136/Loc 1662. "into the only kind of life that actually sustains and inspires."
Note: A general note... Having read Jeff Vaughn and Tim Martin's book about covenant creation has given me some grounding in the scope of the Bible--that of Israel. It helps me not to get swept in to Bell's chorus of "We are the World."
Page 144/Loc 1745. "Jesus was giving, quenching, sustaining. Jesus was, he says, the rock."
Note: Look up the great explanation of this that I saved. (I can try to find this if anyone is interested.)
Page 148/Loc 1784. "were given the freedom to truly make a mess of things."
Note: No, the Bible says he was foreknown before the foundation of the world. His arrival was KNOWN beforehand, not that he EXISTED beforehand.
Page 150/Loc 1823. "and that mystery is a someone . . . Christ. Jesus."
Note: I thought the mystery was "Christ in you, the hope of glory."
Page 154/Loc 1866. "manner the mechanism functions that gets people to God through him."
Note: Really? Bell must not have read the whole chapter, but stopped reading right after Jesus said this. There are some things there about believing in him in John 14:12, about asking for things in his name in John 14:13, and about keeping his commandments in John 14:15,21. In fact, verse 22 excludes "the world" and in verses 23 and 24 Jesus reiterates the need to keep his word (his commandments) in order to abide with the Father. All this explains how no one comes to the Father except through him. I'm not sure what Bible Bell is reading when he says that it does not explain how this is to happen.
Page 157/Loc 1902. "take the Eucharist, or Communion, we dip bread into a cup,"
Note: In the accounts where Jesus designates the bread and wine as representing his body and blood, the only time DIPPING the bread is mentioned is to show who would BETRAY him (Matthew 26.23 and Mark 14.18-20).
Page 168/Loc 2020. "deserve. Parties are thrown for younger brothers who squander their inheritance."
Note: No, parties are thrown for wandering sheep who realize the error of their ways and return home. Repentance was rewarded, not the leaving and squandering.
Page 170/Loc 2040. "are within each other, intertwined, interwoven, bumping up against each other."
Note: If hell is present in the story at all, it is the place where the young son found himself after he had blown his inheritance money and was hungry and homeless. But I do not think this story is about heaven and hell at all. Also, what of the story of the rich man and Lazarus where there is a wide gulf or abyss between the two places?
Page 172/Loc 2073. “You are always with me, and everything I have is yours.”
Note: Yeah, he said that to the son who NEVER STRAYED.
Page 174/Loc 2086. "that they had no escape from an endless future of agony."
Note: Bell believes that all people are already children of God, but the Bible does not teach that. It teaches that we BECOME children of God through faith in Christ.
Page 174/Loc 2092. "to become cruel and relentless in the blink of an eye."
Note: God disciplines his sons. Discipline is not hell.
Page 175/Loc 2098. "can’t be loved. That God is terrifying and traumatizing and unbearable."
Note: Bell wants to change the concept of God because he does not like the picture of God that the Bible portrays.
Page 177/Loc 2130. "God has no desire to inflict pain or agony on anyone."
Note: Find the verse that says that God takes no pleasure in the punishment of the wicked. And the one that says he desires everyone to repent.
Page 182/Loc 2198. "do is subtly teach people that Jesus rescues us from God."
Note: Oh brother. The Bible does warn us that we do not want to fall into the hands of an angry God.
Page 184/Loc 2224. "reason to be displeased, because who knows what will be unleashed."
Note: Bell is taking a small, minority view of God and presenting it as the norm.
Page 187/Loc 2266. "Your deepest, darkest sins and your shameful secrets are simply irrelevant..."
Note: I think not. Your sins will find you out.
___ The End ___
A page number is referenced, along with just a snippet of text, followed by my note. The "Loc" (Location) number is a Kindle reference, since I read the book on and wrote my notes on my Kindle.
________________
Page 10/Loc 195. "Nor did John, Peter, James, or the woman who wrote the Letter to the Hebrews."
Note: LOL. I will have to do some checking to see where he pulled that one from... the woman who wrote Hebrews.
Page 68/Loc 880. "When they fought, their teeth would make a gnashing sound."
Note: This sounds too convenient. In the NT, aren't angry people also described as gnashing their teeth?
Page 71/Loc 916. "literal hell? Of course. Those aren’t metaphorical missing arms and legs."
Note: So he believes something is metaphorical simply because he does not see it?
Page 72/Loc 932. "are that free. We can use machetes if we want to."
Note: But in the Bible, people don't send other people to hell. Author is describing an earthly hell as he sees it. If he then uses his own conception of hell to disprove a biblical hell, he has built a strawman.
Page 73/Loc 941. "so worked up about. Other times he sounds just plain violent."
Note: But Jesus is talking about the consequences for the person who committed the sin, that THAT person would end up in hell. Bell's description, however, places the VICTIMS of someone's sin in hell.
Page 76/Loc 973. "reject Jesus, the very movement of God in flesh and blood."
Note: Interesting that he refers to Jesus as the "movement of God" rather than God himself. This is not inconsistent with unitarian belief and Jesus being the IMAGE or REPRESENTATION of God.
Page 76/Loc 976. "outside their gates. To reject those Lazaruses was to reject God."
Note: While the last statement is true--to reject helping the poor is a rejection of God--isn't that a given in the story? Isn't the substance of the story about the consequences of that action? Bell seems to be redirecting the reader to a secondary issue to avoid dealing with the primary message.
Page 79/Loc 1008. "can only assume we can do the same in the next."
Note: Bell states that Jesus teaches about dying a kind of death in this life so that one can live (that would be dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus), BUT THEN he states that the rich man died a different kind of death (but not, supposedly, a physical death because the story, according to Bell, is not teaching about life after physical death). But where is this other kind of death one can die described by Jesus? It is those who are already dead in their sins who Jesus is there to save. Bell's scenario has this story targeting the righteous, warning them to not choose to become unrighteous, rather than a story meant to urge sinners to repent.
Page 79/Loc 1012. "is hell later, and Jesus teaches us to take both seriously."
Note: In these two short phrases, Bell tries to equate the hell that Jesus urges people to avoid getting thrown into is simply a societal breakdown in morality caused by individual evil acts. I think the Bible calls this persecution and a consequence of living among sinners.
Page 81/Loc 1029. "they’re intent on going. The Romans, he keeps insisting, will crush you."
Note: Where does Jesus talk about not going to war against Rome? Yes, he is against violence and war, but Bell makes it sound like Jesus was a political figure organizing some kind of sit-in for peace.
Page 82/Loc 1049. "their God-given calling and identity to show the world God’s love."
Note: Okay, this point is a good one. Jesus himself said that he came only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Page 83/Loc 1054. "the world what God’s love looks like in flesh and blood."
Note: So far, so good--with this concept.
Page 84/Loc 1069. "Ezekiel says that where there was destruction there will be restoration."
Note: Yes, it is called repentence. Continue reading into Ezekiel chapter 17 and 18.
Page 84/Loc 1075. "Sodom and Gomorrah than them on judgment day? There’s still hope?
Note: The point was not to imply hope for Sodom and Gomorrah, but to highlight the gravity of the situation of those he was speaking to.
Page 86/Loc 1100. "no longer rebuke you, but will rejoice over you with singing.”
Note: This is Zeph 3.17. Look to earlier verses to see who it refers to. Verses 11 and 12 say that God removes the proud and leaves the humble. Verse 13 says the REMNANT of Israel will do no wrong. Verse 15 says that God has TAKEN AWAY their judgments and REMOVED their enemies. It is the righteous remnant whom God rejoices over in verse 17.
Page 87/Loc 1110. "their God will care for them; he will restore their fortunes.”
Note: For the REMNANT..Zephaniah 2:7
Page 87/Loc 1115. "and hurl all our iniquities into the depths of the sea.”
Note: This is Micah 7.19. Verse 18 identifies those it is about... He passes over the rebellious act of the REMNANT of His possession.
Page 88/Loc 1128. "where people worshipped. They’ll worship God in . . . Egypt?
Note: It helps to read the whole chapter of Isaiah 19. In verses 1 through 16 the God of Israel smites Egypt so completely that in verse 17 it says that the land of Judah will become a terror to them. Judah has conquered Egypt and that is why there is an altar to the LORD in Egypt, verses 18 and 19.
Page 91/Loc 1159. "result, Paul is convinced, is that wrongdoers will become right doers."
Note: Yes, the goal is for their repentence. As Egypt in your example above, by turning them over to adversity they will be conquered/humbled and come to worship God in His power.
Page 91/Loc 1166. "or 'a time of trimming,' or an intense experience of correction."
Note: THIS is interesting! If those are the correct Greek words and meaning, then this would change my whole outlook on this sheep and goats passage.
Page 92/Loc 1176. "days later, brought him out of the belly of the fish."
Note: Hmm. Jonah thought it was forever. Think "you will not leave my soul in Hades."
Page 92/Loc 1177. "fish. Olam, in this instance, turns out to be three days."
Note: See my note just above.
Page 97/Loc 1211. is “mighty,” “powerful,” “loving,” “unchanging,” “sovereign,” “full of grace and mercy,”
Note: But also keep in mind that the Bible states explicitly in several places that God shows grace and mercy "to those who love Him."
Page 98/Loc 1226. "of people, not totally great. Sort of great. A little great.
Note: Bell mocks God. Earlier he said something mocking predestination, now he wants to ignore free will.
Page 99/Loc 1237. "we not all have one Father? Did not one God create us?"
Note: Again, Bell ignores context. His quote here is from Malachhi 2.10, but Malachi is written to the priests, the Levites. From chapter 2 verse 1 all the way through verse 9 that is made crystal clear.
Page 99/Loc 1247. "ends of the earth will see the salvation of our God”
Note: This is getting tiring. The verse Bell quotes is Isaiah 52.10. The context is when God frees His captive people from the bondage of Egypt. The text does NOT mean that all will RECEIVE the salvation of God, but that they will witness how God will save His people.
Page 99/Loc 1250. ". and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is LORD,"
Note: No, It does NOT say that Jesus Christ is YHWH! Bell does not handle scripture responsibly; why did I waste my money? Hopefully, so that others will read this and realize Bell's deception.
Page 103/Loc 1296. "shot, and sometimes you just have to be okay with failure”?
Note: What is this called? It's some kind of logical falacy.
Page 108/Loc 1350. "glory; eternal torment doesn’t. Reconciliation brings God glory; endless anguish doesn’t."
Note: God executing judgment also brings God glory. See Ezekiel 28:20-24 and 39:1-13.
Page 108/Loc 1353. "because God’s love will eventually melt even the hardest of hearts."
Note: Here he brings in Calvinism again with appealing to irresistible grace (the I in TULIP), though Bell universalizes it.
Page 108/Loc 1357. "earlier, I could have done something. But now, it’s too late.”
Note: Huh? This is called repentence and God will not turn away the truly repentent (Ezekiel 18). Is Bell going to make a case for this happening after death?
Page 113/Loc 1408. "from those who would insist on continuing to perpetuate those evils."
Note: True. Those things are OUTSIDE the kingdom of God.
Page 115/Loc 1427. "are never shut, then people are free to come and go.
Note: Yes, and in the preterist paradigm, those gates are open now and always. As long as the earth endures and people populate it, the gates are open to those who want to enter. Those inside "go" when they turn away from God, and enter again when they repent. Those who never turn to God remain outside in darkness.
Page 120/Loc 1482. "says yes, we can have what we want, because love wins."
Note: He's talking about the blessings of repentence here and I agree.
Page 129/Loc 1584. "to communicate this epic event in ways their listeners could grasp."
Note: Wait a minute. Is Bell saying that the "metaphor" of sacrifice in the NT was just the first Christians being relevant to their time? Hello? What of the entire Old Testament?!
Page 131/Loc 1605. "new ones; we have entirely new skin every week or so."
Note: Check accuracy. I thought I read recently that the cell and skin thing was not quite as rapid as this.
Page 136/Loc 1662. "into the only kind of life that actually sustains and inspires."
Note: A general note... Having read Jeff Vaughn and Tim Martin's book about covenant creation has given me some grounding in the scope of the Bible--that of Israel. It helps me not to get swept in to Bell's chorus of "We are the World."
Page 144/Loc 1745. "Jesus was giving, quenching, sustaining. Jesus was, he says, the rock."
Note: Look up the great explanation of this that I saved. (I can try to find this if anyone is interested.)
Page 148/Loc 1784. "were given the freedom to truly make a mess of things."
Note: No, the Bible says he was foreknown before the foundation of the world. His arrival was KNOWN beforehand, not that he EXISTED beforehand.
Page 150/Loc 1823. "and that mystery is a someone . . . Christ. Jesus."
Note: I thought the mystery was "Christ in you, the hope of glory."
Page 154/Loc 1866. "manner the mechanism functions that gets people to God through him."
Note: Really? Bell must not have read the whole chapter, but stopped reading right after Jesus said this. There are some things there about believing in him in John 14:12, about asking for things in his name in John 14:13, and about keeping his commandments in John 14:15,21. In fact, verse 22 excludes "the world" and in verses 23 and 24 Jesus reiterates the need to keep his word (his commandments) in order to abide with the Father. All this explains how no one comes to the Father except through him. I'm not sure what Bible Bell is reading when he says that it does not explain how this is to happen.
Page 157/Loc 1902. "take the Eucharist, or Communion, we dip bread into a cup,"
Note: In the accounts where Jesus designates the bread and wine as representing his body and blood, the only time DIPPING the bread is mentioned is to show who would BETRAY him (Matthew 26.23 and Mark 14.18-20).
Page 168/Loc 2020. "deserve. Parties are thrown for younger brothers who squander their inheritance."
Note: No, parties are thrown for wandering sheep who realize the error of their ways and return home. Repentance was rewarded, not the leaving and squandering.
Page 170/Loc 2040. "are within each other, intertwined, interwoven, bumping up against each other."
Note: If hell is present in the story at all, it is the place where the young son found himself after he had blown his inheritance money and was hungry and homeless. But I do not think this story is about heaven and hell at all. Also, what of the story of the rich man and Lazarus where there is a wide gulf or abyss between the two places?
Page 172/Loc 2073. “You are always with me, and everything I have is yours.”
Note: Yeah, he said that to the son who NEVER STRAYED.
Page 174/Loc 2086. "that they had no escape from an endless future of agony."
Note: Bell believes that all people are already children of God, but the Bible does not teach that. It teaches that we BECOME children of God through faith in Christ.
Page 174/Loc 2092. "to become cruel and relentless in the blink of an eye."
Note: God disciplines his sons. Discipline is not hell.
Page 175/Loc 2098. "can’t be loved. That God is terrifying and traumatizing and unbearable."
Note: Bell wants to change the concept of God because he does not like the picture of God that the Bible portrays.
Page 177/Loc 2130. "God has no desire to inflict pain or agony on anyone."
Note: Find the verse that says that God takes no pleasure in the punishment of the wicked. And the one that says he desires everyone to repent.
Page 182/Loc 2198. "do is subtly teach people that Jesus rescues us from God."
Note: Oh brother. The Bible does warn us that we do not want to fall into the hands of an angry God.
Page 184/Loc 2224. "reason to be displeased, because who knows what will be unleashed."
Note: Bell is taking a small, minority view of God and presenting it as the norm.
Page 187/Loc 2266. "Your deepest, darkest sins and your shameful secrets are simply irrelevant..."
Note: I think not. Your sins will find you out.
___ The End ___
