|
|
Post by Once4all on Aug 7, 2011 22:12:02 GMT -5
- Acts 1:9 NASB
(9) And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
I read this today in that book I'm reading, "The Real Devil": I had not heard that interpretation before. It ties in well with - Matthew 16:27 NASB
(27) "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.
Also, "cloud of witnesses" from Hebrews 12:1. Adam Clarke, in his commentary, says " Both the Greeks and Latins frequently use the term cloud, to express a great number of persons or things." Although the word "cloud" isn't here, it also made me think of - Luke 2:13 NASB
(13) And suddenly there appeared with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying,
Before the heavenly host appeared, there was first the angel who appeared to the shepherds: - Luke 2:9-11 NASB
(9) And an angel of the Lord suddenly stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them; and they were terribly frightened.
(10) But the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people;
(11) for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
Thus was announced Jesus' birth. In typical Hebrew (and chiastic) fashion, in reverse order, when Jesus left this world, there was first the "cloud" to receive him, followed by - Acts 1:10-11 NASB
(10) And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them.
(11) They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven."
This makes sense to me. I have a whole new understanding of Jesus being "taken up in a cloud." |
|
|
|
Post by MoGrace2U on Aug 8, 2011 13:08:43 GMT -5
Made me think of this verse:
1 Tim 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Here the 'angels' see Him, while glory received Him. And since aggelos' main definition is messenger; those angels were probably the disciples who witnessed the event, who became the messengers of the gospel.
|
|
|
|
Post by Morris on Aug 8, 2011 15:33:03 GMT -5
Excellent thoughts, both of you!
The "cloud" in Hebrew writing often speaks of "presence", while at the same time not entirely ruling out a real cloud. Cloud can also symbolize, or be used in conjunction with other symbols, to indicate judgment.
Sometimes, and I think it they go hand-in-hand, God's presence brings both judgment and blessing. A prime example is the cloud of God's presence which kept the Israelites safe and destroyed the Egyptians.
So, as you say Bev, a cloud, that being the presence of God and the angels, received Him into heaven. The apostles also became messengers/angels of God as they spread the gospel. I find it interesting that these men, these messenger angels if you will, had with them the presence of God; that being the Holy Spirit. So the angels in heaven were in the presence of God and so were these Christians on earth.
These are some of the reasons why I think this passage of Jesus ascending into the clouds/presence and the foretelling of His return in like manner, is speaking ultimately of the granting of the Holy Spirit as the presence of God/Christ to man. Without getting into it heavily, to me, this is the whole point of the first two chapters of Acts.
Here's an interesting thought (not a proof of any kind), in Mark 9:7 the cloud (the presence of God) says "This is My beloved Son. Hear Him!". In 1 John 4:2-3 we read;
"By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world".
There seems to me to be a connection between the cloud and the Spirit of God. First, they both appear to be representative of the presence of God. Second, they both essentially say 'Jesus is my Son, the Christ (anointed) of God'.
Now that I've said all that, I hope it adds to the discussion and not detract from it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Once4all on Aug 8, 2011 19:13:24 GMT -5
... There seems to me to be a connection between the cloud and the Spirit of God. ... This reminded me of a note I jotted down a short time ago. I found it, but it's not quite the same thing. I wrote it while I was reading Jude. This was part of my note regarding verse12 (Jude 1:12) - ... "clouds without water" are people without the word and spirit of God in their heart; ... |
|
|
|
Post by Morris on Aug 10, 2011 14:05:13 GMT -5
This reminded me of a note I jotted down a short time ago. I found it, but it's not quite the same thing. I wrote it while I was reading Jude. This was part of my note regarding verse12 (Jude 1:12) - ... "clouds without water" are people without the word and spirit of God in their heart; ... Indeed. Another way to say it would be to have the "presence" without the intended "effect"; or as it puts it in the same verse, the "tree" without the "fruit". |
|
|
|
Post by MoGrace2U on Aug 12, 2011 20:09:04 GMT -5
Lots of leaves (looks healthy) but nothing good to eat!
Kinda like the reformers...if you were to ask me! Which I say only because of some of their ideas about 'progressive sanctification' and such things. You know that ole TULIP theology. I am still wondering why after reading Acts 20:28,29,30, why anyone would prefer to call themselves a Calvinist.
|
|
