toml
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Post by toml on Apr 28, 2011 11:22:48 GMT -5
I ask this question as a result of comments that were made in "Why Is God Angry With America." The first response by JL Vaughn was, "We are preterists. We believe that God is no longer angry with anyone. Therefore, we would never ask such a question." Read more: livebytr.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=any&action=display&thread=851&page=1#ixzz1Kpqr2SlJAllyn came along and said, "I think the principles of this chapter are not that God is bringing wrath down on a future nation which may or may not be distorting truth but rather the wrath of God is upon the people He had in mind who had rejected His Son even after having lived in and among the prophets who proclaimed His coming." Read more: livebytr.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=any&action=display&thread=851&page=1#ixzz1KprVeCO3In all my years as a preterist, this is the first time I ever heard anything like this. Therefore, when it comes to the wrath of God, is there nothing in Scripture for today?  |
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Post by JLVaughn on Apr 28, 2011 12:49:05 GMT -5
In all my years as a preterist, this is the first time I ever heard anything like this. Therefore, when it comes to the wrath of God, is there nothing in Scripture for today? Tom, You have claimed that you are new to the internet, that you've read very little printed material by preterists, and that you've not gone to conferences. In all my years as a preterist, I have been connected to preterists by all these means plus regular phone conversations with many of them. I've heard this stuff for years before I developed my own opinion. You've spent years in virtual solitude, then try to dismiss something you haven't heard before? You haven't heard it because you haven't been listening. Allyn and I have locked horns over Genesis 1 for years. Yet we agree on Paul's use of "creation" in Romans. Why? Because it is the common view of creation in Romans among preterists. In the New Testament, the terms creation, heavens and earth, bride/adulterous wife, etc., refer to covenant and/or God's people. They do not refer to the physical universe or the planet we live on. This is not Covenant Creation. This is settled preterist theology. |
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toml
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Post by toml on Apr 28, 2011 13:19:31 GMT -5
If I understand correctly, which you will probably say I don't. But, if Ido, are you saying that preterists believe that God is totally inactive today. That everything was decided in 70AD, and all we have to do is act it all out like some Calvinistic computer program? By the way - that was a metaphor. |
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Post by JLVaughn on Apr 28, 2011 13:38:18 GMT -5
If I understand correctly, which you will probably say I don't. But, if Ido, are you saying that preterists believe that God is totally inactive today. That everything was decided in 70AD, and all we have to do is act it all out like some Calvinistic computer program? By the way - that was a metaphor. Tom, No you don't understand correctly. You aren't even trying. |
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Post by mellontes on Apr 28, 2011 13:56:46 GMT -5
Tom,
Do you believe in eternal conscious torment in hell for unbelievers who may die tomorrow?
Mellontes
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toml
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Post by toml on Apr 28, 2011 14:42:29 GMT -5
Tom, Do you believe in eternal conscious torment in hell for unbelievers who may die tomorrow? Mellontes I believe in Hell. I don't know what happens there, I have never been there, and I don't intend to ever go there, so I don't need to know?  |
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toml
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Post by toml on Apr 28, 2011 14:45:35 GMT -5
If I understand correctly, which you will probably say I don't. But, if Ido, are you saying that preterists believe that God is totally inactive today. That everything was decided in 70AD, and all we have to do is act it all out like some Calvinistic computer program? By the way - that was a metaphor. Tom, No you don't understand correctly. You aren't even trying. Are you God now that you can know what's in my mind, and in my heart? |
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toml
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Post by toml on Apr 28, 2011 14:50:59 GMT -5
Can anyone answer my question? Do preterists believe that God is inactive today? |
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Post by JLVaughn on Apr 28, 2011 14:51:05 GMT -5
Tom, No you don't understand correctly. You aren't even trying. Are you God now that you can know what's in my mind, and in my heart? No Tom, But you should know by now that I am not a Calvinist. Your last comment is a falsehood and you should know it. |
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toml
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Post by toml on Apr 28, 2011 14:54:33 GMT -5
Are you God now that you can know what's in my mind, and in my heart? No Tom, But you should know by now that I am not a Calvinist. Your last comment is a falsehood and you should know it. Where did I suggest that you were a Calvinist? |
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Post by JLVaughn on Apr 28, 2011 14:55:20 GMT -5
Can anyone answer my question? Do preterists believe that God is inactive today? Tom, That is not the question you asked above. The answer is, "No. Preterists believe God is active today." |
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Post by JLVaughn on Apr 28, 2011 15:04:13 GMT -5
No Tom, But you should know by now that I am not a Calvinist. Your last comment is a falsehood and you should know it. Where did I suggest that you were a Calvinist? Are you kidding? If I understand correctly, which you will probably say I don't. But, if Ido, are you saying that preterists believe that God is totally inactive today. That everything was decided in 70AD, and all we have to do is act it all out like some Calvinistic computer program? By the way - that was a metaphor. |
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Post by mellontes on Apr 28, 2011 15:10:08 GMT -5
Tom, Do you believe in eternal conscious torment in hell for unbelievers who may die tomorrow? Mellontes I believe in Hell. I don't know what happens there, I have never been there, and I don't intend to ever go there, so I don't need to know? Too funny. I have never been to Jerusalem in any age. Therefore I don't need to know about it. I have never met any of the apostles or prophets, therefore I do not need to study them. That's quite the study ethic... P.S. - Hell is no more |
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toml
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Post by toml on Apr 28, 2011 15:14:02 GMT -5
Where did I suggest that you were a Calvinist? Are you kidding? If I understand correctly, which you will probably say I don't. But, if Ido, are you saying that preterists believe that God is totally inactive today. That everything was decided in 70AD, and all we have to do is act it all out like some Calvinistic computer program? By the way - that was a metaphor. As I said in the other thread, I don't intend to respond to you anymore. Here is an example of your twisting what I say. I did not call you a Calvinist. I even said it was a metaphor. |
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Post by JLVaughn on Apr 28, 2011 15:20:16 GMT -5
As I said in the other thread, I don't intend to respond to you anymore. Here is an example of your twisting what I say. I did not call you a Calvinist. I even said it was a metaphor. Tom, Your metaphor does not represent truth. It is another falsehood. You attribute falsehoods to me and then you complain about my "twisting" them. What a joke. |
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Post by Allyn on Apr 28, 2011 16:37:58 GMT -5
Can anyone answer my question? Do preterists believe that God is inactive today? God is active in the lives of His believers. God is actively seeking the lost. God has no wrath for anyone except the wrath that comes to anyone who blasphemes the Holy Spirit - which even that is debated as to what it is. God has settled all issues concerning mankind and we are now in the rest of Christ (those who are saved, that is). All other people are lost. Its just as black and white as that. |
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Post by Allyn on Apr 28, 2011 16:44:27 GMT -5
FYI,
Many people have differing definitions for what hell is. Hell to some is simply a place away from God. Some believe it is this life on earth. Others say it is a place where no one can exist. Still others say it is a place of forever torment. And lastly there are those who say it does not exist.
My point is that ridicule of someones private view of hell is not appropriate here on this board.
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Post by Allyn on Apr 28, 2011 19:57:09 GMT -5
TomL has deleted his account and is no longer a member of Preterist Voice.
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Post by mellontes on Apr 29, 2011 9:12:10 GMT -5
FYI, Many people have differing definitions for what hell is. Hell to some is simply a place away from God. Some believe it is this life on earth. Others say it is a place where no one can exist. Still others say it is a place of forever torment. And lastly there are those who say it does not exist. My point is that ridicule of someones private view of hell is not appropriate here on this board. May I ask who it was and what they said about hell that you deemed as ridicule? |
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Post by Allyn on Apr 29, 2011 11:35:50 GMT -5
FYI, Many people have differing definitions for what hell is. Hell to some is simply a place away from God. Some believe it is this life on earth. Others say it is a place where no one can exist. Still others say it is a place of forever torment. And lastly there are those who say it does not exist. My point is that ridicule of someones private view of hell is not appropriate here on this board. May I ask who it was and what they said about hell that you deemed as ridicule? Ted, You know, and it has been pointed out to you in the PM between us. You have chosen to delete your account because you see that it is not acceptable behavior here. |
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Post by comankind on May 2, 2011 18:55:27 GMT -5
Back to tom's original question...yes, everything is fulfilled. But that does not mean wrath cannot exist. The Bible captured a period in time. We are a part of a new heavens and earth, writing a new history. Could God decide to clean the earth through some momentous act? Sure. Why Not?
As far as what the Bible describes about our time, it does hint at it at the end of Revelation. Where it describes the new heaven and earth. A tent of god is with man, they know him and are comforted by him. There are those who are doing wicked things who aren't under the tent, including cowards and dogs. Death/hades (the place of sleep) is gone, and now the lake of fire is all thats left.
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