All,
I am not sure that I will take the time in the coming days to address each of the TULIP points of Calvinism but I do want to "attack" one of those points, however, because I think it is really the one point that would redefine the Calvin follower's whole thinking if that person would consider it under the light I am about to shed.
Most if not all of you know what TULIP stands for, but I will give it here for those who may not:
T - Total depravity - Man has neither the desire nor the ability to come to God on his own, we are hopeless sinners and in our natural sinful state we like it that way.
U - Unconditional election - God chooses who gets saved, not us.
L - Limited atonement - Jesus died only for those who will actually get saved (salvation is offered to all, but only the elect will receive it through the gift of faith).
I - Irresistible grace - God saves by grace, by changing our hearts. Calvinists affirm that only God can change a heart.
P - Perseverance of the saints - Once truly saved, God takes responsibility to see you cannot lose it.
The part of TULIP I want to take on in this post is the letter "L".
L - Limited atonement - Jesus died only for those who will actually get saved (salvation is offered to all, but only the elect will receive it through the gift of faith).
The limited atonement idea is based primarily around at least one OT passage and three NT passages. They are:
Isaiah 53:8 ... for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Matthew 1:21 ... for he shall save his people from their sins.
John 10:11 ... the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
John 10:15 ... and I lay down my life for the sheep.
These are great audience relevant passages for the Full-Preterist. And just like the decision Sam Frost made - they are incompatible with the Calvinist who wishes to otherwise remain a Full-Preterist. In Sam's case Calvinism is sadly his preferred choice. Sam is an educated man but education proves worthless in his choice. Education does not always equate with knowledge and being able to use nickle 99 words does not equate to understanding.
I don't think I would be wrong in stating that all of us here understand that Jesus was sent to bring the lost of Israel to salvation. Each of the Bible verse above indicate this as well. It can be argued that we Gentiles fall under this same plan of salvation, and that would not be wrong with regards to atonement, but atonement in the context of the passages above is a context of salvation for Israel.
The Apostle Paul defines the idea of limited atonement and it is my hope that I can explain how the Apostle does this thus proving that Calvin and by extension Calvinists have misapplied the limited atonement point of TULIP by applying its value to them and other Gentiles yet to be born (that is until "all" that number is satisfied). I might add that the Calvinist has actually set up a paradox situation for God by defining atonement as offered to all but then limiting that atonement to only a few. In other words God contradicts His own hope that all will be saved while knowing only a small number, predetermined can be saved - not will be saved but can be saved.
When it comes to his teaching of atonement for the Jew, Paul, is in fact, teaching that only a remnant of Israel will be saved. Calvinists believe Paul was teaching that out of all the people who have lived or will ever live, only the elect, the predestined and predetermined number of that whole will and could ever be be saved. But Paul is not teaching this. Paul, in his letter to the Roman church made up of converted Jews, tells the readers that it is BY faith in the Law of Moses that Israel is saved (Rom. 3:30). Paul took great care in his leading up to this statement by pointing out that the righteousness of God is revealed from faith [by the law] to faith [through grace] (Romans 1:17). Paul, early on, sets the stage concerning who the elect God has predestined for salvation are. Allow me to quote from Paul all the indicators pointing to Israel as the elect.
1) Rom. 1:20-32 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened...32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
Paul is pointing not to the way the world is but rather the way Israel went by becoming like the rest of humanity.
2) Romans 2:2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things.
God warned Israel (Deut. 28) that to live like those outside of the Law would bring a curse upon them instead of blessings
3) Romans 2:12-13 ...and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
Paul includes how God has wrath on all sin but it was to the Jew first and then the Gentile.
4) Romans 2:17 Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on the law, and make your boast in God,
I use this verse to show again who the audience is in this letter.
5) Romans 3: 1 What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? 2 Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? 4 Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar.
Romans 3:5 But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unjust who inflicts wrath? (I speak as a man.) 6 Certainly not! For then how will God judge the world?
Paul is leading up to who the elect are. Who the predestined are. Who the foreordained are.
6) Romans 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Now remember, I am addressing who the elect are. Paul includes all people as sinners and this is true, but I am developing what I think is the truth concerning who the elect are as opposed to who Calvinists say they are.
7) Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
Paul is establishing here a couple of truths. 1. God is the God of both the Jew and the Gentile. 2. The Jew, the circumcised, is justified by faith. 3. The Gentile is justified through faith.
This is an important understanding. The Jew has (had) a faith that was justified by the Law because of their participation in the elements of the Law. Their individual faith was determined by their acceptance and practice in something they did not actually fully understand but still remained faithful to it with an upright heart. Those who practiced the Law in the futility of their heart faced the wrath of God. those who practiced the Law with an upright heart were found acceptable to God.
The Gentile was justified in a different way. He was justified through faith - not by faith. This may seem like a subtle difference but really its a big difference. By faith and through faith both accomplish salvation for the individual but are based on two separate ways leading to salvation at the time of the first century. One way came about through the Law, which was growing obsolete by that time, and pointed to the atoning work of the cross by their faithfulness to the Law in both heart and works.
While the Gentile is justified through faith not of their own as established by the Law but as through grace. All mankind falls under this principle today. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. (Eph 2:8,9)
I hope you can see the difference concerning these two paths leading to justification. They were important enough for Paul to say it with distinction so its important for us to understand that distinction. See it again in Romans 3:30
Romans chapter 4 has Paul showing how Abraham displayed both justifications of faith. He was faithful as an uncircumcised and faithful as a circumcised. It is no small matter that it is by this way that Abraham is the father of us all. In fact Paul names Abraham as the father of faith. Paul took 3 chapters of writing to show these two faiths and then culminates them in one chapter concerning the father of faith.
I want to skip over chapters 5-7 only because it is deeper dealings of faith that are although very important are not the topic of this posting. I'm going to take us to Romans 8 beginning with verse 19. I think covenant creationists might enjoy my being in agreement with them here. Verse 19-22, I believe, is telling us about the people who I believe are the elect. They are not the elect out of all peoples of the earth but instead are the elect out of the creation which I believe is referring to Israel or better yet the covenant people. In fact verse 12 verifies once again who Paul is speaking to. They are his brethren - this is confirmed over and over in the following chapters as well.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Notice how in verses 23-24 Paul makes the distinction concerning the hope of Israel. In the writings of Acts Paul revealed during his close encounter with the Jews that the hope of Israel was the resurrection of the dead. verse 24 is speaking of this saying: Romans 8:24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees?
Paul says that they were saved in this hope and we understand that this salvation came by faith in the Law (meaning obedience to the law in a heart felt manner) which prepared the elect for the coming Messiah. Paul says:
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
* Who were called? Israel was called to come out of Egypt.
29 For whom He foreknew,
* Who was it God foreknew? Israel even back to Abraham
He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son,
* How were they predestined? Through obedience to the Law in anticipation of the Messiah.
that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
* And who are the brethren but the Jew out of which a remnant was saved.
I conclude, therefore, that the Calvinist may have the idea of a people being Called, Foreknown, Predestined and yes the Elect as being a correct idea, but the Calvinist has it applied to themselves and actually have projected 2000 years away from not only the actual people but also away from its actual timing.
The satisfaction of the completion of the Old Covenant and all its provisions had to take place before the fullness of the New Covenant came. The Old was certainly growing obsolete and the New overlapped it with its introduction at the Last Supper, but God did not finalize the provisions of the Old until the end of the age when the resurrection of the dead occurred (Daniel 12:1-4,13 (the hope of Israel) and their salvation completed at the second coming of Christ (Heb. 9:28)
Sam Frost has a paradox problem made inevitable because he has mis-identified who the "ALL" were. His problem is that he has forgotten not only the Full-Preterism truth that all things have truly been completed in Christ and He has forgotten that God was not finished dealing with the Old Covenant people until the Day that they so longed for had come and the Day of their hope was realized.
) Calvinism over preterism. The two are not compatible if one really delves deep...