How did you become a preterist?

[stephenpatrick]

Good evening everybody.

Has anybody here ever known of anyone who has had their futurist views changed from debating on any forum, especially the CARM forum? From what I have read over at CARM (the past couple of weeks since I was given the Prophecy link I've read about 20 or more complete threads) the futurist folks have not been swayed even though the presentations by preterists have been great.

Also, how were all of you converted from the futurist camp. For me it was not liking the Genesis 12:3 refrain given whenever anyone said anything against the Jews. For some reason it didn't make any sense to me. I wasn't convinced thru debate. Something inside of me was tweaked for many years and I was pointed to a pretty good source for the answer to my Genesis problem.

Appreciate any responses.
Blessings
Steve

[Allyn]

Steve,

It came through a 4 year process starting in 2004. Before that I was pretty much a struggling futurist trying to make sense of what was being taught and being very dissatisfied along the way.

In 2004 my son and I set out to understand Daniel and Revelation. Believe it or not it wasn't until my wife's aunt left behind a Seventh Day Adventist book on Daniel when she moved away that started me on the journey. I was trying to understand chapter 12 of Daniel and this book had their version of it. It was very interesting and made a presentation of some great historical facts. However it still did not provide what I was ultimately looking for.

The next step was to acquire the book written by Steve Gregg on the four views of Revelation and listening to him on BAM. I was hooked by Steve's verse by verse teaching. It really started to click - but still fell alittle short but very close to being there.

In 2005 I made the bold step of telling my friends at The Way to Zion discussion board that I was starting to see the Olivet Discourse as fulfilled and that this obsession with the Jews was a bad thing and not Scriptural. They remained my friends but our discussions were strained.

It was then that I started up my Partial Preterist website www.endtimesmadness.com a name partly stolen from Gary DeMar's book Last Days Madness. That book brought me even closer to full preterism. I just was unable to make that final step because of fear mostly.

Then I was invited to visit CARM. I went in order to support a friend who was in a debate on Spiritual Gifts. Even though I did not hold the same conviction concerning those gifts I was there to give him moral support.

I soon got involved in the Prophecy board. I was defending my Partial preterist/Amillennialst views and one thing and one person became the influence in changing my view completely over, even though I was way short of understanding. That thing was that it was what the Bible was saying whether I understood it well or not. And the one person was our very own Lady Sower who was a solid rock of immovable strength. I would ask a question or tell her what I thought and she would always say she believed what the Bible said only. How could I fight against that? I could not. It came to me just that way. I could fight it no longer.

I played around with it on the forum however, by testing the waters. I would not come out and say I was full preterist but instead would pretend like I was playing Devil's Advocate. It only made me more certain that I was on the right track.

The rest is history, as they say.

[stephenpatrick]

Thanks Allyn. Great journey. You stated you were "very dissatisfied" with the futurist explanation of things. Something in the back of my head continually bothered me, even as I was defending those views, or presenting them to someone. As I previously stated I had a question about Genesis 12:3 and I was told to go to Steve Greggs website and listen to his teaching on Israel. That cleared up alot of confusion on that subject. I did a lot of reading at the preteristarchive.com. That place is loaded with a wealth of information that I never new existed. One of the finer sites which gives the entire preterist viewpoint. More reading at Steve Gregg's forum, then I found your site, endtimesmadness.com. I found that my futurest viewpoint was pretty much over.

I still waiver between partial and full. But I have enjoyed the study. By the way, I don't know about you but I also felt rather ticked off that I read and fell for some very shoddy, and almost (or maybe it really is) heretical teachings from the Lindsey/LaHaye camp. I have to say that I don't like these men very much anymore. They preach somethings that leads one to hate and despise one people group over another to the point of wanting them to be killed for the sake of . . . prophecy. To say that Jesus would want Palestinian Christians to be destroyed for unbelievers is dreadful. I remember during Gulf War 1 praying that Israel would defeat the Arabs. It makes me sick thinking about it.

[Allyn]

I know exactly what you mean, Steve. In fact I went out of my way to support a Paestinian Christian boys home. It made me a better person for it. My problem as a futurist was that I accepted what I was taught and did very little study on my own. I began my real journey way back in 1991 when I began to understand the jewishness of the Bible.

Every person does it differently but that is how it went for me.

[phil]

I had a similar journey as Allyn did. The Futurist view was embedded in me as a process of being brought up Catholic. What started me on the path to preterism was Historicist views and solid historical studies of both OT and NT. As Allyn can attest, many of my viewpoints have a strong historical basis outside the bible. What finally locked my viewpoint was understanding what the writer of the day was trying to convey to the people of Israel of the day...the "vernacular" if you will....which changes over time just like English words and meanings to things. Allyn was also instrumental in this.

My true awakening came when I liad the writings of Josephus Wars next to Revelation and started doing a line by line comparison. The similarities are too great for this to be coincidence and I have gone at risk on some sites as stating that, in my belief, the two witnesses were Josephus and John, and primarily because bth liived to tell the story of the "Day of the Lord". If you all have never thought about it, John was the only apostle to survive after the temple was destroyed. All the others were killed prior ot 66AD, so they never saw the "END".

All in all, I would say my journey took 4 - 6 years.

[stephenpatrick]

Good morning Phil,
I too grew up in the Catholic church. Catholic schools throughout. I think thats why I wanted nothing to do with Catholicism for quite some time regardless of their historical views. And you are correct . . the writings of Josephus do confirm fulfillment in quite a bit of Revelation, and Deuteronomy. That was an exciting discovery.

[adhitthana]

Yes I came around to preterism thru CARM. I was postmillenialist at the time and had years ago read David Chilton's book Paradise Restored.
There were at the time two preterists who posted there, Parousia70 and Godswarrior, who set up the fine website, preteristvision.org
I thought it was ridiculous, I could not see how the creeds could be wrong.
Godswarrior patiently answered all my questions and I saw the truth of it.
Daniel 12 and Mattew 24:32? were key scriptures. I saw that the resurrection happened at the time of the trib in Daniel 12 and saw in Matt 24 that the coming of Christ happened immediately after the trib.
Still seeing these things I had many questions and Godswarrior answered them all.

[Once4all]

I also came around to preterism thru CARM. I used to be historicist. Reading the arguments on CARM for and against preterism piqued my curiosity enough to start reading about preterism on other websites, then books.

I also grew away from trinitarian belief thru CARM. Same scenario: Reading the arguments in the Trinity forum, and most notably a trinitarian/unitarian debate in one of CARM's debate forums. I could not deny that the unitarian position was stronger. Further study convinced me.