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Post by sonofdavid on Feb 14, 2011 14:00:32 GMT -5
In verse 38, Peter tells those that was in the house, to repent and be baptized. Then in verse 41, it is written that all those that galdly received the Word were baptized, and about three thousand souls were baptized. My question is, how were those three thousand souls baptized? There is no indication they were near a pool, or large body of water that they could have been immersed. This question has been with me for a long time. I hope someone can answer it for me. Tom  |
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Post by Allyn on Feb 14, 2011 14:23:33 GMT -5
There were purification pools all over the place around the temple and within the temple walls. The purification ritual was religious requirement under the Old Law. This is part of the reason it was not a foreign thing to be baptized whether it was John's baptism for repentance or the baptism for the remission of sins. Some priests even had pools in their place of residence while they were under the commision of the preisthood for their term.
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Post by sonofdavid on Feb 14, 2011 16:32:14 GMT -5
However, as I pointed out, there is nothing in the text that indicates they were near a pool, or a large body of water. Nowhere does the text indicate they were at the temple. In the 2nd verse, it is written that they were in a house. No indication that the apostles ever left that house. The wind filled the house, and they began speaking in other languages, and the multitude came to them. They were not at the temple. |
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Post by Allyn on Feb 14, 2011 17:32:58 GMT -5
However, as I pointed out, there is nothing in the text that indicates they were near a pool, or a large body of water. Nowhere does the text indicate they were at the temple. In the 2nd verse, it is written that they were in a house. No indication that the apostles ever left that house. The wind filled the house, and they began speaking in other languages, and the multitude came to them. They were not at the temple. Not all baptism is with water but I was only commenting on the baptism with water. |
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Post by sonofdavid on Feb 15, 2011 11:28:31 GMT -5
However, as I pointed out, there is nothing in the text that indicates they were near a pool, or a large body of water. Nowhere does the text indicate they were at the temple. In the 2nd verse, it is written that they were in a house. No indication that the apostles ever left that house. The wind filled the house, and they began speaking in other languages, and the multitude came to them. They were not at the temple. Not all baptism is with water but I was only commenting on the baptism with water. Are you suggesting then that the baptism in Acts 2 was not water baptism? |
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Post by Morris on Feb 16, 2011 11:16:13 GMT -5
In verse 38, Peter tells those that was in the house, to repent and be baptized. Then in verse 41, it is written that all those that galdly received the Word were baptized, and about three thousand souls were baptized. My question is, how were those three thousand souls baptized? There is no indication they were near a pool, or large body of water that they could have been immersed. This question has been with me for a long time. I hope someone can answer it for me. Tom I don't believe that this all took place in a building. As you noted, about 3000 were baptized that day. Here's another point to consider; although I agree with Allyn that not all baptisms are water baptisms, Acts 2:38 suggests that this baptism " on the name of Jesus Christ" into the " remission of sins" is not identical to the " gift of the Holy Spirit". In other words, if the gift of the Holy Spirit is considered a baptism (i.e. the individual is immersed into the Holy Spirit), then there are two baptisms here; one into the remission of sins (on the authority/power of Jesus) and one into the Holy Spirit (by promise, as seen in Acts 2:39). We also have no indication within the text of the time frame of these events other than "that day". We must be cautious in reading into non-indications. For instance, John 19 has no indication that anyone but Jesus carried His cross, but we know a man named Simon did carry His cross for a part of the distance only because of the testimony of the other three gospels. Simply put, the writers did not include every detail, only those they felt pertinent. Another example could be in Acts 8 where Philip was in the desert with the Ethiopian eunuch. In this instance Luke noted that " This is desert" and so felt it necessary to include the Ethiopian's statement " See, here is water" when baptism came up. I doubt he felt the same need to made such a comment in the backdrop of the city of Jerusalem. |
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Post by sonofdavid on Feb 16, 2011 11:38:00 GMT -5
Morris, Are you suggesting there were two baptisms in Acts 2? First, the one that filled the apostles, and two, the one the 3000 souls were baptized with? |
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Post by Morris on Feb 16, 2011 15:15:58 GMT -5
Morris, Are you suggesting there were two baptisms in Acts 2? First, the one that filled the apostles, and two, the one the 3000 souls were baptized with? Well, these were certainly two separate events as the first occasion created the sound that gathered the multitude to investigate it. They both received the Holy Spirit as seen in Acts 2:4 & 38. A baptism/immersion in water, in and of itself, is nothing more than a bath. But when done as an act/declaration of repentance, resting on the authority and character of Christ, we are immersed "into" freedom from sins*. It also pictures us being immersed into Christ's death and resurrection. (* In Acts 2:38 we read " Repent [think differently or afterwards], and let every one of you be baptized [to immerse, submerge; to make whelmed] in [of rest at, on, etc.] the name of Jesus Christ for [purpose (result, etc.)] the remission [freedom; (figuratively) pardon] of sins; and you shall receive [to get hold of] the gift of the Holy Spirit".)
I'll try for a quick summation here. Repentance is of the heart, not the water. Repentance occurred even before they got wet, and in fact was what compelled them to get wet. Repentance whereby one has engulfed them self to resting on the authority and character of Jesus Christ results in freedom from sin. With this comes the promised gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38,39).
So what's with the water? It is illustrative of spiritual truths and can also be a public declaration. It served/serves as an object lesson to those who repented (more so then simply because they had the OT background knowledge and also due to climate were able to be baptized almost immediately).
As examples, Acts 8 shows a man (the Ethiopian eunuch) who "had come to Jerusalem to worship" (verse 27). He understood baptism and as Philip "preached Jesus to him", the man says "See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?". Something about Philip preaching Jesus caused the man to desire baptism in water. I believe the desire came from repentance and Philip's message (speaking from the OT and relating it to Jesus; Acts 8:35).
Acts 10 shows Cornelius and his household being given "the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 10:45). This is the same as in Acts 2:38. Yet they were still baptized with water after this. This was used to show them the reality of complete and overwhelming freedom from sin, complete and overwhelming resting and reliance on Christ, and His complete and overwhelming victory over the grave. It showed them what had transpired. |
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Post by Once4all on Feb 16, 2011 22:54:36 GMT -5
(Acts 2:38 NASB) Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
A spirit that is holy is a spirit free from sin. The gift of having all of your sins forgiven is a cleansed or holy spirit.
(2 Corinthians 7:1 NASB) Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
Just a thought.
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Post by sonofdavid on Feb 18, 2011 11:02:20 GMT -5
Well, these were certainly two separate events as the first occasion created the sound that gathered the multitude to investigate it. They both received the Holy Spirit as seen in Acts 2:4 & 38. A baptism/immersion in water, in and of itself, is nothing more than a bath. But when done as an act/declaration of repentance, resting on the authority and character of Christ, we are immersed "into" freedom from sins*. It also pictures us being immersed into Christ's death and resurrection. (* In Acts 2:38 we read " Repent [think differently or afterwards], and let every one of you be baptized [to immerse, submerge; to make whelmed] in [of rest at, on, etc.] the name of Jesus Christ for [purpose (result, etc.)] the remission [freedom; (figuratively) pardon] of sins; and you shall receive [to get hold of] the gift of the Holy Spirit".)
I'll try for a quick summation here. Repentance is of the heart, not the water. Repentance occurred even before they got wet, and in fact was what compelled them to get wet. Repentance whereby one has engulfed them self to resting on the authority and character of Jesus Christ results in freedom from sin. With this comes the promised gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38,39).
So what's with the water? It is illustrative of spiritual truths and can also be a public declaration. It served/serves as an object lesson to those who repented (more so then simply because they had the OT background knowledge and also due to climate were able to be baptized almost immediately).
As examples, Acts 8 shows a man (the Ethiopian eunuch) who "had come to Jerusalem to worship" (verse 27). He understood baptism and as Philip "preached Jesus to him", the man says "See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?". Something about Philip preaching Jesus caused the man to desire baptism in water. I believe the desire came from repentance and Philip's message (speaking from the OT and relating it to Jesus; Acts 8:35).
Acts 10 shows Cornelius and his household being given "the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 10:45). This is the same as in Acts 2:38. Yet they were still baptized with water after this. This was used to show them the reality of complete and overwhelming freedom from sin, complete and overwhelming resting and reliance on Christ, and His complete and overwhelming victory over the grave. It showed them what had transpired. But in Acts 2, water is not mentioned at all. So, this doesn't get me any closer to my answer. How were the 3000 souls in Acts 2 baptized?  |
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Post by Allyn on Feb 18, 2011 12:54:07 GMT -5
Well, these were certainly two separate events as the first occasion created the sound that gathered the multitude to investigate it. They both received the Holy Spirit as seen in Acts 2:4 & 38. A baptism/immersion in water, in and of itself, is nothing more than a bath. But when done as an act/declaration of repentance, resting on the authority and character of Christ, we are immersed "into" freedom from sins*. It also pictures us being immersed into Christ's death and resurrection. (* In Acts 2:38 we read " Repent [think differently or afterwards], and let every one of you be baptized [to immerse, submerge; to make whelmed] in [of rest at, on, etc.] the name of Jesus Christ for [purpose (result, etc.)] the remission [freedom; (figuratively) pardon] of sins; and you shall receive [to get hold of] the gift of the Holy Spirit".)
I'll try for a quick summation here. Repentance is of the heart, not the water. Repentance occurred even before they got wet, and in fact was what compelled them to get wet. Repentance whereby one has engulfed them self to resting on the authority and character of Jesus Christ results in freedom from sin. With this comes the promised gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38,39).
So what's with the water? It is illustrative of spiritual truths and can also be a public declaration. It served/serves as an object lesson to those who repented (more so then simply because they had the OT background knowledge and also due to climate were able to be baptized almost immediately).
As examples, Acts 8 shows a man (the Ethiopian eunuch) who "had come to Jerusalem to worship" (verse 27). He understood baptism and as Philip "preached Jesus to him", the man says "See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?". Something about Philip preaching Jesus caused the man to desire baptism in water. I believe the desire came from repentance and Philip's message (speaking from the OT and relating it to Jesus; Acts 8:35).
Acts 10 shows Cornelius and his household being given "the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 10:45). This is the same as in Acts 2:38. Yet they were still baptized with water after this. This was used to show them the reality of complete and overwhelming freedom from sin, complete and overwhelming resting and reliance on Christ, and His complete and overwhelming victory over the grave. It showed them what had transpired. But in Acts 2, water is not mentioned at all. So, this doesn't get me any closer to my answer. How were the 3000 souls in Acts 2 baptized? They were baptized with water. Water was more than available. |
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Post by Morris on Feb 18, 2011 15:10:05 GMT -5
As examples, Acts 8 shows a man (the Ethiopian eunuch) who " had come to Jerusalem to worship" (verse 27). He understood baptism and as Philip " preached Jesus to him", the man says " See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?". Something about Philip preaching Jesus caused the man to desire baptism in water. I believe the desire came from repentance and Philip's message (speaking from the OT and relating it to Jesus; Acts 8:35). Acts 10 shows Cornelius and his household being given " the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 10:45). This is the same as in Acts 2:38. Yet they were still baptized with water after this. This was used to show them the reality of complete and overwhelming freedom from sin, complete and overwhelming resting and reliance on Christ, and His complete and overwhelming victory over the grave. It showed them what had transpired. But in Acts 2, water is not mentioned at all. So, this doesn't get me any closer to my answer. How were the 3000 souls in Acts 2 baptized? [/quote] Well then, if we look at the Acts 8 example, there is no mention of repentance or receiving of the Holy Spirit on the part of the Ethiopian. In Acts 10 we see the receiving of the gift of the Holy Spirit and no mention of repentance. Peter asks, " Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized..." but it doesn't mention anything about them actually being baptized in water and instead says they should " be baptized in the name of the Lord". Isn't this exactly what Peter said in Acts 2:38?. " Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." When we say we are going to drive somewhere do we always specify that it will be in our own vehicle? I don't because I assume that people automatically associate me driving with me driving my vehicle. If this isn't the case, such as driving someone else's vehicle, I would generally specify so they don't ask me a question like, 'how are you driving there if your vehicle is in the shop?' Even the Ethiopian understood baptism was connected with water with there being any mention in the text about it. |
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Post by Allyn on Feb 18, 2011 16:07:53 GMT -5
As examples, Acts 8 shows a man (the Ethiopian eunuch) who " had come to Jerusalem to worship" (verse 27). He understood baptism and as Philip " preached Jesus to him", the man says " See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?". Something about Philip preaching Jesus caused the man to desire baptism in water. I believe the desire came from repentance and Philip's message (speaking from the OT and relating it to Jesus; Acts 8:35). Acts 10 shows Cornelius and his household being given " the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 10:45). This is the same as in Acts 2:38. Yet they were still baptized with water after this. This was used to show them the reality of complete and overwhelming freedom from sin, complete and overwhelming resting and reliance on Christ, and His complete and overwhelming victory over the grave. It showed them what had transpired. Well then, if we look at the Acts 8 example, there is no mention of repentance or receiving of the Holy Spirit on the part of the Ethiopian. In Acts 10 we see the receiving of the gift of the Holy Spirit and no mention of repentance. Peter asks, " Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized..." but it doesn't mention anything about them actually being baptized in water and instead says they should " be baptized in the name of the Lord". Isn't this exactly what Peter said in Acts 2:38?. " Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." When we say we are going to drive somewhere do we always specify that it will be in our own vehicle? I don't because I assume that people automatically associate me driving with me driving my vehicle. If this isn't the case, such as driving someone else's vehicle, I would generally specify so they don't ask me a question like, 'how are you driving there if your vehicle is in the shop?' Even the Ethiopian understood baptism was connected with water with there being any mention in the text about it. You and I think a lot alike on this Morris. I have always held to the understanding that regardless if all those things mleading to Baptism are mentioned or not all the elements of gaining salvation are taught even if separately. |
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