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Post by Allyn on Feb 10, 2011 7:41:59 GMT -5
I think it has or has a continuing from one generation to the next steady fulfillment. For example the stone not cut with hands in Daniel 2 is a prophecy I see as continuing on forever but has had its beginning already established.
Are there others like this? Or maybe you don't agree with my example.
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Post by mellontes on Feb 10, 2011 9:30:22 GMT -5
This is a most excellent question!To quote Sam Frost: " What we (at least us more of the Reformed bend) saw as "hyper-preterism" is that "every single prophecy was FULLfilled in AD 70. Think, "rivers of eden" here. However, I have come to see that many others believe this as well, like Mike Sullivan, who does not see ANY prophecy "being" fulfilled today in any "ongoing" sense. They have ALL been fulfilled, taking the cue from Jesus' words, "to fulfill ALL that has been written"." Source: deathisdefeated.ning.com/forum/topics/sam-frost-on-leaving-full?commentId=2362512%3AComment%3A36408So, I guess it depends upon what one means by "fulfilled." I have always taken it to mean "come to pass" i.e. when it first started. It may or may not have ongoing effects... For example, Isaiah 53 prophecies of the Calvary event. The actual physical Calvary event has completely finished; it has stopped. There is NOT an ongoing crucifixion, but there are ongoing effects because of what was inaugurated at the cross... Sam is taking the same position as Brian Simmons does. Prophecies have to be "filled fully." Sam must believe in this manner because he is now looking for a different state of Isaiah 65's new heaven and earth, at least to my understanding of his position... Yes, all prophecy has come to pass and the kingdom promises are ongoing today just as people can be saved today. The "all prophecy stopped at 70 AD view" is either Universalism or Atheism, as Mr. Loomis' recent post in regard to Rivers of Eden has already alluded to. To me, the idea that all prophecy must be completely fulfilled and has a beginning, a middle and a final end is the foundational essence of futurism - similar to that of many futurists' misunderstanding of " until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in" from Romans 11:25.
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Post by sonofdavid on Feb 12, 2011 9:35:44 GMT -5
When applied to prophecy, it means that prophecy has happened and are past events.Read more: livebytr.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=any&thread=794&page=1#ixzz1DqepAE7oThe above statement I made in this other thread. It's been requested that I elaborate on this in this thread. However, I am not sure how. The idea of the word "preterist" comes from the word, "preterit" indicating a past event or action. So preterism, in the context of prophecy indicates past prophetic events or actions. Hence, "fulfilled prophecy." Now, in the context of this thread. I agree with Allyn. Eventhough prophecy is fulfilled, does not mean that there is not further impact on the future. As daddy always said, "The future is based on the past." For example, the crucifixion of Christ is a past event, yet has eternal implications. So too the events of 70ad. Since that time, the stone not cut by hands has been firmly ensconced in the history of mankind, and for all eternity. How is that for elaboration? 
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Post by mellontes on Feb 12, 2011 9:40:22 GMT -5
I really haven't encountered preterists who believe all prophecy stopped at 70 AD without ongoing effects, except maybe Rivers of Eden. Yet, Sam Frost says there are many preterists who believe this...
I am of the persuasion exhibited here by soD and Allyn.
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Post by sonofdavid on Feb 12, 2011 10:38:28 GMT -5
Can the universe stand the strain? Allyn, Ted and I are in agreement.  Ted, you didn't say what you thought of my elaboration. It is hard to elaborate on something so simple. Now when you consider the ramifications of fulfilled prophecy, while it is simple to understand, elaborations can be made. And perhaps that is what you wanted me to do. Don't get me wrong. I do believe that all prophecies have been completely and fully fulfilled. That is the events themselves have happened. But the impact of those events are still being realized today. It's like a domino effect of history. One event or action leads to another event or action which then leads to another event or action. That's an elaboration of what my dad always said that, "The future is based on the past." This is the basis for what is called temporal mechanics. We can shape and even manipulate the future by what we do today. We've just seen this play out in Egypt. 20 days ago it began. Each day led to events of the next day, which ultimately led to Hosni Mubarack stepping down as President. However, had not Mubarack become the President 30 years ago, these events of the past 20 days might not have happened. And it was the assination of Anwar Sedat that led to Mubarack becoming the President. So, you can see how the assasin manipulated Egypt's history. But, what led to the assasination of Sedat? You can take every event and action in human history and trace them all the way back to creation. Had not God created the heavens and the earth in the beginning, nothing that has ever happened in human history would have happened. The Bible shows us how in many ways, God himself manipulated human history starting with creation. Even today God continues to manipulate human history by using weather. It's easy to look down through history and see how one event or action has led to other events or actions. So, why is it so difficult for some to see the Bible in the same way? The event or action of the cross occured nearly 2000 years ago. If the effectiveness of the cross ended in 70ad, then we have a problem. Same is true of the effectiveness of all other prophecies in the Bible. I hope this helps. |
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Post by mellontes on Feb 12, 2011 12:35:15 GMT -5
Can the universe stand the strain? Allyn, Ted and I are in agreement. Ted, you didn't say what you thought of my elaboration. You are right. I didn't say what I thought of it - well, sort of. I am glad that you elaborated your view as having ongoing effects. When I posted again and said I agreed with Allyn's and your view, it implied that I accepted and agreed with your extra elaboration. I should have been more specific, but then again I honestly didn't know whether you wanted me to comment on your elaboration... |
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Post by mellontes on Feb 12, 2011 13:06:30 GMT -5
I forgot to add this little diddy (no pun intended AT ALL).
It was in reagard to when Thomas mentioned the Egypt situation...
Well, my investment strategy is basically contrarian. That's rather funny since I am a preterist, and a CC preterist at that!
So, when this Egypt stuff started happening, I remembered this stock called Centamin Egypt Limited (CEE) (which I should have gotten into a long time ago!!), and noticed that it had dropped from a high of $3.00 to and had dwindled down to almost $2.00. I jumped in when things looked the worst. It was up over 11 percent on just Friday alone. I will probably sell when it returns to $3.00 in about 3 weeks. I still recommend it.
Nokia (NOK) has been clobbered of recent but it looks really bad.
Cisco systems has been clobbered of late and I am not really sure if it will rebound right away. My thinking is that it won't...
Okay...enough investment stuff. This is a preterist forum. We are supposed to be broke...lol.
Has anyone ever noticed that there is a general trend for preterists to be business owners and artsy types, all generally with strong wills. It certainly would explain all the clashes...and the characteristics required to look into preterism.
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Post by sonofdavid on Feb 13, 2011 11:20:14 GMT -5
Can the universe stand the strain? Allyn, Ted and I are in agreement. Ted, you didn't say what you thought of my elaboration. You are right. I didn't say what I thought of it - well, sort of. I am glad that you elaborated your view as having ongoing effects. When I posted again and said I agreed with Allyn's and your view, it implied that I accepted and agreed with your extra elaboration. I should have been more specific, but then again I honestly didn't know whether you wanted me to comment on your elaboration... Ted, Here you used the term "ongoing effects." In the other thread you used the term "ongoing fulfillment." I brought a portion of what I said over from the other thread, so I didn't have to repeat it here. Do you see the difference between "ongoing effects," and "ongoing fulfillment"?  |
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Post by mellontes on Feb 13, 2011 13:08:45 GMT -5
"Do you see the difference between "ongoing effects," and "ongoing fulfillment"?
I guess there is a slight difference. Perhaps "on-going effect because of fulfillment" is the best way to word these things. Su much effort just to explained what we mean by fulfilled. It is no wonder that others tend to run with what they think it meant...
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Post by sonofdavid on Feb 13, 2011 14:57:24 GMT -5
"Do you see the difference between "ongoing effects," and "ongoing fulfillment"? I guess there is a slight difference. Perhaps "on-going effect because of fulfillment" is the best way to word these things. Su much effort just to explained what we mean by fulfilled. It is no wonder that others tend to run with what they think it meant... How about saying it like this, "fulfillment with eternal implications"?  |
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Post by mellontes on Feb 13, 2011 17:29:08 GMT -5
I'd really, really, really like to but I can't. Some prophecies, once fulfilled are fulfilled completely and have no continuing special effects.
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Post by sonofdavid on Feb 14, 2011 0:33:13 GMT -5
I'd really, really, really like to but I can't. Some prophecies, once fulfilled are fulfilled completely and have no continuing special effects. Like what?  |
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