Post by Once4all on Jan 26, 2011 12:05:53 GMT -5
Chapters 11 and 12 deal with the Fall and the Curse. I have several comments here, so I will number them to help keep them separated.
1. One of the interesting ideas I found in chapter 11 was the concept that hyper-evolution is a dilemma faced by young-earth creationism (page 195). I had never thought about this before. I have highlighted text on pages 195 and 197.
2. On page 198, I noted what I saw as an assumption in the "Young-earth Creationism vs. Intelligent Design" section. My margin note reads, "This seems to assume that every detail of God's creation was marred because of the Fall. Why is that necessary?"
3. On page 203, there is a brief discussion of Revelation 21:24-26 about the glory and honor of the nations being brought into the New Jerusalem. I made a margin note, but it was just a spur-of-the-moment thought not really related to the whole topic. My thought was that "the glory and honor of the nations" refers to the believers who have overcome the world, as Jesus did (John 16:33).
—Moving on to chapter 12, I am about halfway through it. I've read up to page 220. There is much in this chapter I can agree with, but I also found some problems.
4. One thought that came to me a couple of chapters earlier, even though it was not mentioned there (and has not yet been mentioned) fits in with the discussion in chapter 12, and that is the curse in Genesis 2:17 ("and dying you shall die") is a direct correlation to Jesus' words in John 11:25-26 –
John 11:25-26 NASB
(25) Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,
(26) and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"
Jesus says that if you believe in him, the curse of Genesis 2:17 is reversed.
5. I did find some problems in chapter 12. On page 216, Psalm 104:21, 25-28 is quoted to show that carnivorous activity (animals eating animals) was designed into the original, physical creation. The problem here is when you back up and include verses 19 and 20, there is reference directly to Genesis 1:14 –
Psalms 104:19-20 NASB
(19) He made the moon for the seasons; The sun knows the place of its setting.
(20) You appoint darkness and it becomes night, In which all the beasts of the forest prowl about.
Genesis 1:14 NASB
(14) Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years;
You can't use verse 21 to prove something about the physical creation, then deny that verse 19 refers to physical creation, but rather covenant.
If verse 21 proves that carnivorous behavior was present in the original creation, then verse 19 also proves that Genesis 1:14, at a minimum, also speaks of creation of the physical heavens.
6. On page 217, writing about physical death, the authors state, "Death had to exist before the fall if Adam was to be informed in some manner about what God meant by the threat of death. In fact, even before the fall Adam could only live forever by his close relationship to the tree of life (Gen 3:22)."
Here is my margin note: "You are mixing concepts. Physical death existing before the Fall indicates that physical death is part of God's natural design. The only life that is forever; i.e., eternal, is spiritual life. Therefore, the tree of life must be related to spiritual, not physical, life."
You are implying that eternal physical life was an option for Adam.
7. My last note is on page 219 and it was to say that you made a good point. The idea that "we see God in nature," "in the work of His hands," would essentially deny that the physical world is fallen or cursed. How can you look at something corrupted and say, "I know there is a God because of what I see," if what I'm looking at is ruined.
That's it for now. I still have a little more than half of chapter 12 to get through.
1. One of the interesting ideas I found in chapter 11 was the concept that hyper-evolution is a dilemma faced by young-earth creationism (page 195). I had never thought about this before. I have highlighted text on pages 195 and 197.
2. On page 198, I noted what I saw as an assumption in the "Young-earth Creationism vs. Intelligent Design" section. My margin note reads, "This seems to assume that every detail of God's creation was marred because of the Fall. Why is that necessary?"
3. On page 203, there is a brief discussion of Revelation 21:24-26 about the glory and honor of the nations being brought into the New Jerusalem. I made a margin note, but it was just a spur-of-the-moment thought not really related to the whole topic. My thought was that "the glory and honor of the nations" refers to the believers who have overcome the world, as Jesus did (John 16:33).
—Moving on to chapter 12, I am about halfway through it. I've read up to page 220. There is much in this chapter I can agree with, but I also found some problems.
4. One thought that came to me a couple of chapters earlier, even though it was not mentioned there (and has not yet been mentioned) fits in with the discussion in chapter 12, and that is the curse in Genesis 2:17 ("and dying you shall die") is a direct correlation to Jesus' words in John 11:25-26 –
John 11:25-26 NASB
(25) Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,
(26) and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"
Jesus says that if you believe in him, the curse of Genesis 2:17 is reversed.
5. I did find some problems in chapter 12. On page 216, Psalm 104:21, 25-28 is quoted to show that carnivorous activity (animals eating animals) was designed into the original, physical creation. The problem here is when you back up and include verses 19 and 20, there is reference directly to Genesis 1:14 –
Psalms 104:19-20 NASB
(19) He made the moon for the seasons; The sun knows the place of its setting.
(20) You appoint darkness and it becomes night, In which all the beasts of the forest prowl about.
Genesis 1:14 NASB
(14) Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years;
You can't use verse 21 to prove something about the physical creation, then deny that verse 19 refers to physical creation, but rather covenant.
If verse 21 proves that carnivorous behavior was present in the original creation, then verse 19 also proves that Genesis 1:14, at a minimum, also speaks of creation of the physical heavens.
6. On page 217, writing about physical death, the authors state, "Death had to exist before the fall if Adam was to be informed in some manner about what God meant by the threat of death. In fact, even before the fall Adam could only live forever by his close relationship to the tree of life (Gen 3:22)."
Here is my margin note: "You are mixing concepts. Physical death existing before the Fall indicates that physical death is part of God's natural design. The only life that is forever; i.e., eternal, is spiritual life. Therefore, the tree of life must be related to spiritual, not physical, life."
You are implying that eternal physical life was an option for Adam.
7. My last note is on page 219 and it was to say that you made a good point. The idea that "we see God in nature," "in the work of His hands," would essentially deny that the physical world is fallen or cursed. How can you look at something corrupted and say, "I know there is a God because of what I see," if what I'm looking at is ruined.
That's it for now. I still have a little more than half of chapter 12 to get through.
