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Post by Allyn on Jan 9, 2011 10:26:05 GMT -5
I believe this about the resurrection of the dead...
that by 70 AD those people who died were under the Law of Moses went to Hades and awaited the resurrection - some to eternal life and some to condemnation. The awareness of which place in hades where the individual would be is illustrated in Jesus' teaching concerning the rich man and Lazuras.
People outside of the Gospel of Christ and outside of the Law of Moses when they died were never to rise. The resurrection of the dead was promised to Israel only.
Does this fit your view or how would you change it?
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Post by mellontes on Jan 9, 2011 12:27:17 GMT -5
I'm assuming that "by 70 AD" meant those PRIOR to 70 AD. If others are reading and are not familiar it could be taken as a starting reference...no biggie.
And since I do not believe man was ever created immortal in the first place, I do not see how those outside of faith could live on in eternity.
I also think too much of our thinking on hell, hades, and sheol comes from Catholic "scareology" and Dante's Inferno...
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Post by kangaroojack on Jan 9, 2011 13:35:46 GMT -5
I believe this about the resurrection of the dead... that by 70 AD those people who died were under the Law of Moses went to Hades and awaited the resurrection - some to eternal life and some to condemnation. The awareness of which place in hades where the individual would be is illustrated in Jesus' teaching concerning the rich man and Lazuras. People outside of the Gospel of Christ and outside of the Law of Moses when they died were never to rise. The resurrection of the dead was promised to Israel only. Does this fit your view or how would you change it? Allyn, Are you asking this question of all of us or just Ted? Roo |
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Post by Allyn on Jan 9, 2011 13:45:50 GMT -5
I believe this about the resurrection of the dead... that by 70 AD those people who died were under the Law of Moses went to Hades and awaited the resurrection - some to eternal life and some to condemnation. The awareness of which place in hades where the individual would be is illustrated in Jesus' teaching concerning the rich man and Lazuras. People outside of the Gospel of Christ and outside of the Law of Moses when they died were never to rise. The resurrection of the dead was promised to Israel only. Does this fit your view or how would you change it? Allyn, Are you asking this question of all of us or just Ted? Roo Its a quetion for open discussion. |
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Post by kangaroojack on Jan 9, 2011 14:26:07 GMT -5
I believe this about the resurrection of the dead... that by 70 AD those people who died were under the Law of Moses went to Hades and awaited the resurrection - some to eternal life and some to condemnation. The awareness of which place in hades where the individual would be is illustrated in Jesus' teaching concerning the rich man and Lazuras. People outside of the Gospel of Christ and outside of the Law of Moses when they died were never to rise. The resurrection of the dead was promised to Israel only. Does this fit your view or how would you change it? The only thing I would differ on would be the awareness aspect of it. I believe that most slept in hades and that only a select few were "aware." The rich man and Lazarus were an example of the few who were aware while they waited. The wicked were never to rise to immortality but were to rise in the sense that they would be awakened and then ascend from hades to their judgment place which was the lake of fire. The resurrection is past and now all men go straight to their reward. There is no sleeping and there is no waiting place. Roo |
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Post by Allyn on Jan 9, 2011 14:37:19 GMT -5
I believe this about the resurrection of the dead... that by 70 AD those people who died were under the Law of Moses went to Hades and awaited the resurrection - some to eternal life and some to condemnation. The awareness of which place in hades where the individual would be is illustrated in Jesus' teaching concerning the rich man and Lazuras. People outside of the Gospel of Christ and outside of the Law of Moses when they died were never to rise. The resurrection of the dead was promised to Israel only. Does this fit your view or how would you change it? The only thing I would differ on would be the awareness aspect of it. I believe that most slept in hades and that only a select few were "aware." The rich man and Lazarus were an example of the few who were aware while they waited. The wicked were never to rise to immortality but were to rise in the sense that they would be awakened and then ascend from hades to their judgment place which was the lake of fire. The resurrection is past and now all men go straight to their reward. There is no sleeping and there is no waiting place. Roo That may be, but as I see it only Israel having the promise of the resurrection were the only ones in hades. Daniel says that of the many who sleep in the dust only some awake. Sleep is equated to being dead - not necessarily unware. I think this passage in Daniel 12 is revealing in that of all who have ever died during Daniel's time that only his people are aware of where they are. This is shown in the parable of the rich man and Lazuras. |
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Post by mellontes on Jan 9, 2011 18:01:35 GMT -5
That may be, but as I see it only Israel having the promise of the resurrection were the only ones in hades. Daniel says that of the many who sleep in the dust only some awake. Sleep is equated to being dead - not necessarily unware. I think this passage in Daniel 12 is revealing in that of all who have ever died during Daniel's time that only his people are aware of where they are. This is shown in the parable of the rich man and Lazuras. Where did the other non-Israel end up before 70 AD? And where did they end up post 70 AD? Tough questions... |
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Post by Allyn on Jan 9, 2011 18:16:14 GMT -5
That may be, but as I see it only Israel having the promise of the resurrection were the only ones in hades. Daniel says that of the many who sleep in the dust only some awake. Sleep is equated to being dead - not necessarily unware. I think this passage in Daniel 12 is revealing in that of all who have ever died during Daniel's time that only his people are aware of where they are. This is shown in the parable of the rich man and Lazuras. Where did the other non-Israel end up before 70 AD? And where did they end up post 70 AD? Tough questions... Adam's sin put the curse of spiritual death on all. God made provision for a chosen few through the promise to Abraham that would lead to the solution. Israel was that chosen few and they were put under the laws and regulations of God through the Law of Moses. No other nation on earth received this except that anyone from any nation could become recipients of this provision by becoming a part of the nation who God had ordained. Therefore all outside of Israel up to the time of the cross received his or her reward at their person biological death. They ceased to exist. There was a short term of 40 years when people who were of the Law were judged by the Law and were held in hades and those who were of the faith God found righteous through His Son were under no condemnation and were in paradise at death or were part of the first resurrection depicted in Rev. 20. After the 40 years and at the second coming of Christ for salvation (Heb 9:28) all who die from that point on either went immediately to their individual heavenly reward or if not in Christ faced judgment and destruction forever and ever. This may raise new questions and I think I am prepared to answer them. |
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Post by kangaroojack on Jan 9, 2011 18:27:25 GMT -5
Allyn wrote:
Agreed. This would imply that all believers before ad70 were of the house of Israel. Gentiles did not come into the covenant until that time.
Roo
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Post by kangaroojack on Jan 9, 2011 18:32:12 GMT -5
Allyn wrote: Yippie! Our Administrator is a brother Calvinist!   Roo |
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Post by Allyn on Jan 9, 2011 18:51:16 GMT -5
Allyn wrote: Yippie! Out Administrator is a brother Calvinist! Roo No - if this resembles your understanding as related to calvinism it is totally coincidental. Sorry. The chosen few received all the benefits of being chosen but if the individual was not of faith he would not survive spiritually the judgment to come. |
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Post by kangaroojack on Jan 9, 2011 18:53:43 GMT -5
Allyn wrote: Yippie! Our Administrator is a brother Calvinist! Roo No - if this resembles your understanding as related to calvinism it is totally coincidental. Sorry. Your explanation of your expression "a chosen few" would help. Roo |
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Post by Allyn on Jan 9, 2011 18:54:53 GMT -5
No - if this resembles your understanding as related to calvinism it is totally coincidental. Sorry. Your explanation of your expression "a chosen few" would help. Roo See the edit to my post above, Roo.  |
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Post by kangaroojack on Jan 9, 2011 18:56:56 GMT -5
Allyn wrote:
Coincidental?
Roo
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Post by kangaroojack on Jan 9, 2011 18:59:43 GMT -5
Allyn wrote:
What were the "benefits" of being chosen?
Roo
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Post by kangaroojack on Jan 9, 2011 19:02:13 GMT -5
Allyn,
And what about my other statement
Roo
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Post by Allyn on Jan 9, 2011 19:08:01 GMT -5
Allyn wrote: What were the "benefits" of being chosen? Roo One was peace in the land. Good crops and mild seasons to name a few. |
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Post by Allyn on Jan 9, 2011 19:11:35 GMT -5
Allyn, And what about my other statement Roo I didn't know I needed to respond to this but if you are looking for my agreement it would be on the condition that we are talking about the same house of Israel. |
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