Misconceptions about Jews and Israel

[kangaroojack]

TO ALL: I posted this at Bible Wheel today.


Cheow wrote:

Let me ask you a question, is the US or Australia a thriving nation due to chance or the blessings of God? How about China and Japan which are non-Christian countries, their economic success is due to chance or God's blessings?

Lord have mercy on Cheow! He sees the word "thriving" in the carnal sense of prosperity and success when God sees that all nations are spiritually impoverished.

Cheow:

Please also answer me this question, Jesus was a mixed Jew yet we still consider Him a Jew? Most Jews were not pure Jews by the time of Jesus, yet the apostles still called them Jews? My question is pure Jew really a Jew?

Jesus was a physical descendant of Abraham. Those that are called "Jews" today who occupy the land of Israel are totally Gentile in origin. They ADOPTED the Jewish religion. That's all! They have no promises from God except that which all other men have which is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation from sin.

What needs to be understood is that modern Israel is not the Israel of scripture, they are not the descendants of Abraham. There is no race of Jews today! The Encyclopedia Britannica (Vol. 12, p. 1054) 1973 says, "The findings of physical anthropology show that, contrary to the popular view, there is no Jewish race."Jewish author, Camille Honig, editor of The Jewish Voice, wrote (Nov, 1953),"It is sheer nonsense, as well as unscientific, to speak of a Jewish race. Jews do not belong to a single homogeneous group."

This is acknowledged by historians of all stripes who know that the Ashkenaz Jews of today were, in fact, Gentiles in origin. Ashkenaz Jews, who comprise the vast majority of those calling themselves Jews today, trace their lineage back to Gomer, who in turn was descended from Japheth, the son of Noah (Genesis 10:3; 1 Chronicles 1:4f). However, the lineage of Abraham came through Noah's son Shem, not Japheth. This is incredibly important, and yet, is being essentially ignored by most Bible students today.

Thus, for modern prophecy teachers to proclaim that Israel remains the chosen people of God, is a falsehood, for Biblical Israel does not exist today. There is no nation of Israel, descended from Abraham, today.

But, it is not only wrong from a purely ethnic/racialperspective, to speak of the restoration of Israel today, it is also wrong from a Biblical perspective. The nation of Israel was never intended to be God's ultimate "People." He had something else in mind, something which even the nation of Israel typified. Yet, programs like Wings of Eagles, by claiming that Israel remains the chosen people, whom the modern church must support at all costs, are tacitly guilty of rejecting what God had in mind as the actual goal of Israel's destiny.

The idea of a restored Israel is a modern myth, for Biblical Israel, physically descended from Abraham, simply does not exist. She ceased to exist in A.D. 70. The "Jews" in Israel today are Ashkenaz, and are Gentiles by race. Even Jewish anthropologists admit that there is no ethnic race of Israel to day.



endtimesmadness.com/Jews2.html

Cheow:

"....what does it matter if they are not the descendants of Abraham.

What would my Preterist colleagues think of me if I entertained such an asinine question.


Paul said that "ALL Israel shall be saved." He identified "ALL" Israel as the chosen remnant of his own time (Romans 11:5-6). After they all were saved in Paul's time God made their house desolate. They ceased to exist at the result of the ad70 event just as Jesus predicted. History testifies to this. All the physical descendants of Abraham are gone!

All men are on the same ground before God and all have the same promise of eternal life if they believe. It's that simple!


Roo

[kangaroojack]

The sons of Abraham gone extinct?...Ask any Arab today and they will tell you they are descended from ABRAHAM through Ishmael. The enmity between the sons of Esau/Ishmael (Palestinians and Arabs) and the sons of Jacob/Isaac (Israelites) still exists today is a testimony of the 4,000 years conflict between the sons of Abraham that still remain unresolved.

Ask any Arab you say! The "sons of Abraham" biblically defined were those who were both physical descendants of Abraham and sons of promise. Were the sons of Ishmael sons of promise? No!

Those who think they are "Jews" are not really Jews at all.

The "Jews" in Israel today are Ashkenaz, and are Gentiles by race. Even Jewish anthropologists admit that there is no ethnic race of Israel to day.

endtimesmadness.com/Jews2.html

Okay so here are the facts:

1. Arabs are not sons of promise and therefore are not sons of Abraham in the biblical sense.

2. Jesus said that the house of Israel would become desolate. But the Zionists say no. This means that Zionists preach and teach a false hope and a false gospel regarding a non existant people.

3. Those who call themselves "Jews" in Israel today are really Ashkenaz Gentiles by origin. So the Arabs are at enmity with those who are not even there physical brothers.

4. Even "Jewish" Anthropologists admit that there is no Jewish race today. Yet the uneducated Zionists here at Bible Wheel think they know more than the "Jewish" experts.


Roo

[mellontes]

Roo, Just a couple of things...

1. Good luck getting anywhere with Cheow. I (truthseeker1959) and several others tried for quite a while.

2. I don't think you can make a blanket statement that all those in Israel are Gentile. It is quite likely that some of them actually are related to Abraham, but they are unable to prove it...

[kangaroojack]

Cheow wrote:

I am no Zionist, Kangaroo, I mean Jack. Does God differentiates a Zionist or a Jew in His judgement? Funny, if God hated Zionists how come He did not destroy them but seems to bless their homeland in Israel? God loves everyone and hopes that everyone should be saved.

Do you believe in the 4,000 years conflict between the sons of Abraham i.e. Esau/Ishmael versus Jacob/Isaac and this conflict continues to this day? Some preterists do.

There are evidence that the Jews and Arabs are related.

Many Blessings and Merry Christmas.

Cheow,

Do you care at all what the scripture says? Only the sons of Isaac and Jacob were counted as Abraham's seed. Therefore, the Arabs are not Abraham's seed in the biblical sense and the house of the real seed was made desolate. History shows that the "Jews" in the land today are the Ashkenaz people who are not Abraham's physical seed. Your head is in the sand my friend!

Paul said that the remnant of the Jews were ALL saved in his own time (Romans 11:1-7).

After God saved ALL the remnant He judged the rest of them for their disobedience. He took away their racial identity. ALL men today stand on the same ground before God and ALL have the same promises or judgments. This is the true gospel!

There are evidence that the Jews and Arabs are related.

The Ashkenaz call themselves "Jews" but they are not. And the Arabs were never counted as Abraham's seed.



Roo

[kangaroojack]

Cheow wrote:

Do you believe in the 4,000 years conflict between the sons of Abraham i.e. Esau/Ishmael versus Jacob/Isaac and this conflict continues to this day? Some preterists do.

The Ashkenaz believe the myth that they are Jews. The Arabs believe the myth that they are counted as Abraham's seed. And so the two peoples fight. So what? It proves nothing.


Roo

[kangaroojack]

Mellontes wrote:

2. I don't think you can make a blanket statement that all those in Israel are Gentile. It is quite likely that some of them actually are related to Abraham, but they are unable to prove it...

The idea of a restored Israel is a modern myth, for Biblical Israel, physically descended from Abraham, simply does not exist. She ceased to exist in A.D. 70. The "Jews" in Israel today are Ashkenaz, and are Gentiles by race. Even Jewish anthropologists admit that there is no ethnic race of Israel to day.



endtimesmadness.com/Jews2.html

Define the term "race" Ted.



Roo

[mellontes]

Dec 25, 2010 10:07:25 GMT -5 @kangaroojack said:

Define the term "race" Ted.

Roo

I think I am going to retract what I said. Being a Jew was never about race. It was always religious in nature. What I was thinking though was the possibility that there could be some in Israel who would have a genealogy going back to Abraham, although they would be unable to prove it.

[kangaroojack]

Cheow wrote:

Genesis16 : 15 So Hagar bore Abram a son, and Abram gave the name Ishmael to the son she had borne.
Genesis 21 : 3 Abraham gave the name Isaac to the son Sarah bore him.
Genesis 25 : 23 The LORD said to her, (Rebecca, Isaac’s wife)
"Two nations are in your wom](meaning the Arabs/Palestinians and the Jews/Israelites),
and two peoples from within you will be separated(meaning the two nations will not be united or merge as one);
one people will be stronger than the other,(meaning the Jews/Israelites will be stronger than the Arabs/Palestinians)
and the older will serve the younger."(meaning the Arabs/Palestinianswill serve the Jews/Israelites)

Genesis 25 : 24 When the time came for her to give birth, there were twin boys in her womb. 25 The first to come out was red, and his whole body was like a hairy garment; so they named him Esau. [e] 26 After this, his brother came out, with his hand grasping Esau's heel; so he was named Jacob.

Genesis 27 : 36 Esau said, "Isn't he rightly named Jacob ? He has deceived me these two times: He took my birthright, and now he's taken my blessing!" Then he asked, "Haven't you reserved any blessing for me?"
Genesis 27 : 39 His father Isaac answered him,
"Your dwelling will be
away from the earth's richness,
away from the dew of heaven above.
Genesis27 : 40 You will live by the sword
and you will serve your brother.
But when you grow restless,
you will throw his yoke
from off your neck." (meaning one day the Arabs/Palestinians will overcome the Israelites)COLOR]
Genesis 27 : 41 Esau held a grudge against Jacob because of the blessing his father had given him. He said to himself, "The days of mourning for my father are near; then I will kill my brother Jacob."
Genesis 28 : 8 Esau then realized how displeasing the Canaanite women were to his father Isaac;
Genesis 28 : 9 so he went to Ishmael and married Mahalath, the sister of Nebaioth and daughter of Ishmael son of Abraham
Genesis 32 : 28 Then the man said, "Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, [e] because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome."

This is how the story goes:
Abraham is the father of Ishmael and Isaac.
Abraham is the father of the Jews whereas Ishmael is the father of the Arabs (this is claimed by the present Arabs of today).
Isaac bored 2 twins, Esau and Jacob.
Esau hated Jacob for taking his blessing and intended to kill him
Esau then allied with Ishmael (father of the Arabs) by marrying his daughter, a Canaanite woman (they then bored many of the descendants of the present day Israel’s muslim neighbours).
Isaac somehow despised Canaanite women and would not allow Jacob to marry them.
Jacob was renamed as Israel (he fathered many of the descendants of Israel of today).

You see my friend, throughout the 4,000 years or so of history, the people of Canaan, the
Muslims, the Arabs have always been in loggerheads with Israel till today. All because
they are the descendants of Esau and Jacob and also because of the rivalry due to the
blessing as stated in Genesis 25:23. Eventually Israel will win as stated in Genesis 25:23,
“the older (Esau) will serve the younger (Isaac)” and Genesis 32: 25 “because you have
struggled with God and with men and have overcome”. The rivalry between Israel and
the Muslims will always continue and Only through God’s intervention, will the rivalry
stops. When will God intervene? He will do so in the endtimes which will bring about
everlasting peace and forgiveness of all sins that men and the Jews have done. This will
also lead all mankind to obey God’s commandments.

Many Blessings.

So you deny that Sarah dispossessed Ishmael as an heir? And you deny that God dispossessed Ishmael as a son of Abraham because of Sarah's word? And you deny that Jesus said that God would dispossess the house of Israel ("your house shall be left desolate")?

9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, whom she had borne to Abraham, scoffing. 10 Therefore she said to Abraham, “Cast out this bondwoman and her son; for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, namely with Isaac.” 11 And the matter was very displeasing in Abraham’s sight because of his son.
12 But God said to Abraham, “Do not let it be displeasing in your sight because of the lad or because of your bondwoman. Whatever Sarah has said to you, listen to her voice; for in Isaac your seed shall be called.

Genesis 21:9-12

Sarah had dispossessed Ishmael as an heir which means that he was dispossessed as a son. Note that God told Abraham to "listen" to Sarah's voice. Then God Himself told Abraham that Isaac is "Your ONLY son."

2 Then He said, “Take now your son, your ONLY son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you.”


12 And He said, “Do not lay your hand on the lad, or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your ONLY son, from Me.”

Genesis 22:2, 12

Ishamel was no longer an heir for Sarah had dispossessed him. Therefore, he was no longer a son. A son is an heir!

SHOW FROM THE MOUTH OF JESUS AND THE APOSTLES WHERE ISHMAEL WAS EVER CALLED A SON OF ABRAHAM!

Okay, so Ishmael was dispossessed as a son of Abraham which means that his descendants were not counted by God as sons. Then Jesus said that the house of Israel would be made desolate. This was fulfilled in ad70. So they ceased to be the sons of Abraham.

So you must show the biblical significance of the Arab and so called "Jew" feuding after ad70? Explain why you reject the biblical, historical and anthropological evidence which demonstates that there are no more sons of Abraham.

This is acknowledged by historians of all stripes who know that the Ashkenaz Jews of today were, in fact, Gentiles in origin. Ashkenaz Jews, who comprise the vast majority of those calling themselves Jews today, trace their lineage back to Gomer, who in turn was descended from Japheth, the son of Noah (Genesis 10:3; 1 Chronicles 1:4f). However, the lineage of Abraham came through Noah's son Shem, not Japheth. This is incredibly important, and yet, is being essentially ignored by most Bible students today.

endtimesmadness.com/Jews2.html

YOU ARE IGNORING THE BIBLICAL, HISTORICAL AND ANTHROPOLOGICAL EVIDENCE. THOSE WHO CALL THEMSELVES "JEWS" TODAY KNOW THAT THEY ARE NOT THE DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM. THEY KNOW THEY ARE THE DESCENDANTS OF JAPHETH WHO WAS NOT RELATED TO ABRAHAM. EVEN THEIR OWN "JEWISH" ENCYCLOPEDIA SAYS SO!

KEEP YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND MY FRIEND!




Roo

[kangaroojack]

Mellontes wrote:

What I was thinking though was the possibility that there could be some in Israel who would have a genealogy going back to Abraham, although they would be unable to prove it.

They should KNOW that they are not the sons of Abraham.

This is acknowledged by historians of all stripes who know that the Ashkenaz Jews of today were, in fact, Gentiles in origin. Ashkenaz Jews, who comprise the vast majority of those calling themselves Jews today, trace their lineage back to Gomer, who in turn was descended from Japheth, the son of Noah (Genesis 10:3; 1 Chronicles 1:4f). However, the lineage of Abraham came through Noah's son Shem, not Japheth. This is incredibly important, and yet, is being essentially ignored by most Bible students today.

endtimesmadness.com/Jews2.html

They trace their lineage back to Japheth who was not related to Abraham. So they should KNOW they are not sons of Abraham.

Blessings,

Roo

[mellontes]

Regarding the alleged future state of Israel, Preterists have often said the following:

"Even if dispyism is true, there would be no way to show (by genealogy) who should be priest because these records were destroyed in 70 AD."

Now, if that is true, what genealogies are being used to trace back to Japheth?

The two statements seem contrary...

[kangaroojack]

Dec 26, 2010 9:54:35 GMT -5 @mellontes said:

Regarding the alleged future state of Israel, Preterists have often said the following:

"Even if dispyism is true, there would be no way to show (by genealogy) who should be priest because these records were destroyed in 70 AD."

Now, if that is true, what genealogies are being used to trace back to Japheth?

The two statements seem contrary...

Please elaborate.

Roo

[MoGrace2U]

Well if it is true that the Israelites in the land are really descendants of Gomer/ Japheth then Ezek 39 looks like it might have a word for us who think these things are all over.

Rev 20:8 - And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Rev 20:9 - And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.