Trinitarians on the Messenger of Jehovah

[kangaroojack]

...Exodus 3:2-6 seems quite conclusive in equating "the angel [messenger] of the LORD" with God. Verse 2 states that the Angel [messenger] of the LORD was in the burning bush. Verse 4 says that after Moses turned aside to see the wonder, the Lord saw him, and "God called unto him in the midst of the bush." As George Bush notes, "The phraseology shows that the term 'Lord' here is used interchangeably with 'Angel.' " Again, Exodus 3:6 is very clear when it records this Angel [messenger] as saying, "I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face for he was afraid to look upon God."

...note Judges 6, where Gideon's meeting with the "angel [messenger] of the LORD" is recorded. In verse 12, "the angel [messenger] of the LORD appeared to Him" and began to speak. In verse 13 Gideon replied. In verse 14 the narrative continues, "The LORD looked upon him, and said." And so as the story unfolds, "the LORD" and "the angel [messenger] of the LORD" are used interchangeably. Again and again the Bible equates this Messenger with God

Christ in the Old Testament, James a Borland, Moody Press, p. 38, all brackets and emphasis mine.

The book I cited above is a textbook from one of my courses in Bible College. The copyright on the book cited above is 1978 and contains an excerpt from trinitarian George Bush who wrote his book in 1850. He also cites Henry Cowles who was a contemporary with Bush.

See the link below for a very brief summary on the identity of the messenger of the Lord.

www.journeyintothebible.com/jitb-en...._01.pdf

[kangaroojack]

Matthew Henry on the Messenger of Jehovah in Exodus 3:

The angel of the Lord, that spake in this place, is afterwards called Jehovah. How could this be said if the Son of God be not God coequal with the Father?

(Matthew Henry Commentary on the Bible, Nelson Publishers, vol. 1, p. 134, all bold mine)

Wycliffe on the same passage:

This was not just an angel, but a manifestation of Jehovah Himself (v. 4; cf. Gen. 16:7; 22:11; 31:11-13; 48:15,16).

Wycliffe Bible Commentary, Moody Press, p. 54, bold mine

I will not be answering arguments on this thread. I am only giving what Trinitarians say on the Messenger of Jehovah

Roo

[kangaroojack]

Another trinitarian on the identity of the Messenger of the Lord when He appeared to Hagar:

...Consequently, the "angel [messenger] of the Lord" met her and constrained her to return to Abram. This is the first occurrence of this phrase in the Bible, and the context indicates (verse 13) that this "angel" [messenger] was indeed God Himself, that is, another preincarnate appearance of the Messiah,

(The Genesis Record, Henry M. Morris, Baker Book House, p. 330, brackets mine).

This was a textbook that was required for a course I took in Genesis. Copyright date is 1979.

Roo

[Morris]

I think you lost me, Roo. I mean, I don't really disagree with anything you posted, but I can't make the connection with the "Trinitarians" slant.

[Edit: Please note that this was posted after only seeing the first post, not realizing many were to follow.]

[kangaroojack]

John MacArthur comments on the Angel of the LORD noting that...

This special individual spoke as though He were distinct from Yahweh, yet also spoke in the first person as though He were indeed to be identified as Yahweh Himself, with Hagar recognizing that in seeing this Angel, she had seen God (v. 13). Others had the same experience and came to the same conclusion (cf. Ge 22:11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18; 31:11, 12, 13; Ex 3:2, 3, 4, 5; Nu 22:22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35; Jdg 6:11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23; 13:2, 3, 4, 5; 1Ki 19:5, 6, 7). The Angel of the Lord, who does not appear after the birth of Christ, is often identified as the pre-incarnate Christ (Ed note: NT verses with phrase "angel of the Lord" appear but none are equated with Divinity as is the Angel in this OT passage and those surveyed below).

(MacArthur, J.: The MacArthur Study Bible Nashville: Word or Logos)

Warren Wiersbe

This is the first appearance in Scripture of the Angel of the Lord, who is generally identified as our Lord Jesus Christ. In Genesis 16:10, the angel promised to do what only God can do; and in Genesis 16:13, Hagar called the angel “God.” These pre-Incarnation visits of Jesus Christ to the earth were to meet special needs and to accomplish special tasks. The fact that the Son of God took on a temporary body, left heaven, and came down to help a rejected servant-girl surely reveals His grace and love. His servants Abraham and Sarah had sinned against the Lord and against Hagar, but the Lord did not desert them.

(Wiersbe, W. W. Be Obedient. Wheaton, Ill.: Victor Books)

John Gill

This is the first time that mention is made of an angel in Scripture, but is not to be understood of a created angel, but of a divine Person, as appears from Genesis 16:10 ("I will greatly multiply your descendants so that they shall be too many to count" = essentially the same covenant promise Jehovah gave to Abraham in Genesis 22:17), the uncreated angel, the Logos or Son of God, called the Angel of God's presence, and the Angel of the covenant, Isa 63:9, Mal 3:1; who often appeared in an human form before his incarnation, being sent by his divine Father on one account or another; and hence called an angel, a messenger, or one sent, as in the fulness of time he was sent in human nature to be the Redeemer of his people; though many of the Jewish writers take this angel to be a man sent of God. Gersom {n} says he was one of the prophets that lived in those times, and observes, that some of their Rabbins say {o} he was Shem, the son of Noah; and Maimonides {p} suggests, that this angel was but a mere man, by comparing this passage with that in Ge 37:15, "a certain man found him", &c. but the context most clearly confutes this notion, and proves him to be the almighty and omniscient God; since he promises to do what none but the omnipotent Being could do, and declares such things as none but the omniscient God could know: and when it is said he "found Hagar", it is not to be understood as if it was a chance matter, or the fruit and effect of search and inquiry, or as if he had not seen her before; but rather it shows that his eye was upon her, and he had a concern for her, and at a proper time and place appeared to her at once, and unawares, and unthought of by her. And the place where he found her was

(Gill, J. Exposition of the Entire Bible)

Wenham in his commentary note on Genesis 16:7 writes

The Angel of the Lord is mentioned 58 times in the OT, “the angel of God” 11 times. Angels of the Lord appear either singly as here or in groups. When first seen, they are usually taken to be men, but by the end of the encounter one of them is realized to be God (Genesis18:2, 22; Jdg 6:11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22; 13:3-22). When, as here, the text simply speaks of a single Angel of the Lord, this must be understood as God himself appearing in human form, a nearly always to bring good news or salvation. The Angel of the Lord appears frequently in Genesis and in the Book of Judges but rarely in the literature dealing with later periods. The exact relationship between the Angel and God himself has been the subject of much inconclusive discussion. The (Early Church) Fathers identified him with the Logos. ...Within Genesis, the angel of the Lord tends to appear at moments of dire personal crisis (cf. Ge 21:17; 22:11, 15).

(Wenham, G. J. Vol. 2: Word Biblical Commentary : Genesis 16-50. Word Biblical Commentary. Dallas: Word)

www.preceptaustin.org/angel_of_the_lord.htm

Roo

[kangaroojack]

Alec Motyer on the Messenger of the Lord:

Exodus describes Moses' encounter with God as the angel of the LORD appearing to him. When we look at the other references to 'the Angel of the LORD' or 'the Angel of God', we find that he is someone very special indeed. A. B. Davidson put it this way: 'This Angel is not a created angel--He is Jehovah Himself in manifestation...identical with Jehovah, although also different.'

Angels in general, writes Davidson, can represent one aspect or another of the divine nature but 'in the Angel of the Lord He is fully present.' Malachi 3:1 is a case in point, where 'The Lord (adon, the Sovereign)' and 'The messenger/Angel of the covenant' are in apposition: literally, 'Suddenly, the Lord whom you seek, the Angel of the covenant whom you desire, will come to his temple. Behold! He is coming! The LORD (yhwh) of hosts has said it!'

The coming of the Angel is the coming of Yahweh in all his sovereignty, yet Yahweh announces the coming of the Angel as though speaking of someone else. All this is amply borne out in the references to 'the Angel of the LORD' throughout the Old Testament.

against-heresies.blogspot.com/2009....-1.html


Roo

[kangaroojack]

CHRIST BEFORE BETHLEHEM
Dr. Erwin W. Lutzer

At Christmastime it’s understandable that we focus on the birth of Christ. Many years ago when our oldest daughter was a child, she asked me this question, “Who was looking after the world when God was a baby?”

The answer to that question is that Christ was looking after the world even when He was a baby. That baby had a divine nature. He was God, and continued to be God, even as an infant. As God, He existed long before that holy night in Bethlehem.

Of all of us, it can be said that our existence began at our conception and our birth. But Jesus had actual existence before Bethlehem. What was He doing? Well, He was running the world He created. He was sustaining the world. He was interacting with human beings, and He was connecting God the Father with the human beings on this planet.

Did you realize that in the Old Testament whenever you read the expression “the Angel of the Lord” it is referring to Christ, the second person of the Trinity? In Exodus chapter 3 we read about Moses, who was called from the burning bush. “And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a blazing fire from the midst of the bush. And he looked, and behold, the bush was bunting with fire, and yet the bush was not consumed. And God called to him from the midst of the bush, and said, ‘Moses, Moses.’ And he said, ‘Here I am.’”

The Angel of the Lord of verse 2 is God. And later on, when the Lord reveals Himself to Moses, He says in verse 14, “I AM that I AM.” And it is the Angel of the Lord who is claiming deity, claiming to be God. But if the Angel of the Lord is God, what makes us think that it must be the second person of the Trinity, namely Christ?

Just stay with me! In the first chapter of Zechariah, the prophet is having a vision and the Angel of the Lord appears. We read, “The Angel of the Lord answered and said, ‘Oh Lord of Hosts, how long wilt Thou have no compassion for Jerusalem, and for the cities of Judah, with which Thou has been indignant these seventy years?’” And the Lord answered the Angel who was speaking with gracious words.

What’s happening here? The Angel of the Lord is interceding. Now follow carefully. The Angel of the Lord can be shown in the Old Testament to be nothing less than God. And yet we have Scripture like this that show Him to be distinct from Jehovah. There is only one explanation - it must be the second member of the Trinity, it must be Christ. And you have the Angel of the Lord talking to Jehovah God.

Then who could this be; who is doing this intercession but the second person of the Trinity? And just like in the New Testament, you have Jesus Christ talking to God the Father. In the same way in the Old Testament, Christ who is the “Angel of the Lord” is speaking to God the Father.

Interestingly, the Angel of the Lord never appears again in all of Scripture after the incarnation. You find Him only in the Old Testament. Now in the New Testament as well as in the Old Testament, you have many references to ‘an angel of the Lord.’ The Bible says that an angel, the angel Gabriel, came to Mary. But that is an angel of the Lord. The Angel of the Lord is always a reference to the second person of the Trinity. It is a reference to Christ. Theologians call it a theophany, that is, a manifestation of God in the Old Testament.

But there were thousands, perhaps millions of angels in the Bethlehem skies to welcome the birth of the Son of God... a fitting tribute to the King of Kings.

Let’s look briefly at three ministries that the Angel of the Lord performed in the Old Testament and that Christ still does today.

First of all, in the Old Testament as in the New Testament, He revealed God. Interestingly, in the New Testament in John 8:58 when Jesus was being accused. He said, “Before Abraham was, I AM.” And that’s why they took up stones to stone Him; they knew He had claimed to be God, Jehovah. The “I AM” of the Angel of the Lord in the Old Testament is the “I AM” of the incarnate Christ in the New Testament.

And may I add that if Jesus had not come to explain God, if there was no Angel of the Lord in the Old Testament, and if there was no Christ incarnate in the New Testament, we would have no idea as to what God is like. We would look at earthquakes, famines, hurricanes, and tornadoes and we would see the angry side of nature; we’d never know that God is love. We would never know that we could be reconciled to God. All that we could do is to grope in our blindness. How thankful we are that Christ explains God to us!

Secondly, He intercedes. If He is the revealer, He is also the intercessor. We read in Zechariah 3 that the Angel of the Lord is interceding on behalf of Joshua the high priest.

What does Jesus do for us today? He intercedes for us. The Bible says, “...it is Christ that died, yea rather that is risen again and is even now at the right hand of the throne of God, Who makes intercession for us. “

Third, He comforts His people.

In Genesis 16 we find the first time in all the Old Testament where the Angel of the Lord appears. There’s a woman by the name of Hagar who is living in the home of Abraham and Sarah. Sarah is barren; she can have no children. And yet God said, “Abraham, you are going to be the father of a multitude.”

So one day Sarah says to Abraham - and this was the custom in those days - “I am unable to bear children for you; have children with my servant, Hagar.” So Abraham accepted her suggestion and Hagar became pregnant. She bore a son called Ishmael and the conflict in the home was absolutely overwhelming. So Sarah begins to despise Hagar, and sends her out of the house.

Here is this lonely woman, kicked out of her house, alone, going through the desert, and she comes to a well. The Bible says that the Angel of the Lord appeared to Her. He said, “Hagar, don’t be discouraged; let Me comfort you. I want you to know that you will bear a child and I am going to bless him, too and make him also a father of a multitude.”

God saw this destitute, disappointed, rejected woman. And He sees you today in your apartment which is far too small. And He sees you in the midst of a family with all of its struggles and hassles. And He has eyes that look into your room and even into your ghetto, whatever that might be, and God sees you there.

The Angel of the Lord in the Old Testament comforted those who were hurting. And in the New Testament, Jesus does the same thing. “Come unto Me all ye who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest.”

I know what you’re thinking. You’re saying, “Well, Pastor Lutzer, why the incarnation? Why didn’t the Angel of the Lord just keep on ministering to people, comforting them, interceding for them, revealing God to them? Why Bethlehem? Why Christmas?”

Here’s where the news becomes breathtaking. It’s because there were some things the Angel of the Lord could not do unless He assumed human form: therefore the Word would become flesh. For this I want you to turn to the book of Hebrews and find four or five ministries that Christ can have only as man, that He could never have had as the Angel of the Lord. What a wonder the incarnation is!

Number one, He could not be our Savior. God could not forgive our sins, finally and eternally, until He became one of us, to become a sacrifice for us. We read, “Jesus upholds all things by the word of His power, and when He made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high” (Hebrews 1:3).

Why couldn’t the Angel of the Lord simply wipe out people’s sins? Why the need for the incarnation? Because, without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins. And you could not take the Angel of the Lord and nail him to a cross, could you? And if you could, there would be no blood. There had to be someone who would become like us to redeem us. And blood had to be shed, and a sacrifice had to be made. And for that, Christ had to become one with us.

Notice, to become Israel’s king He had to become a member of the human race. He had to come through the lineage that had been predicted - the lineage of David.

And then also, He had to become one of our brothers. In the book of Hebrews we read, “For both He who sanctifies, and those who are sanctified...,” that’s a reference to us,“...we are all from one Father, for which reason He...”, that is, Christ, “is not ashamed to call them His brethren.”

Isn’t this astounding? Do you realize what benefits come to those who believe in Christ? We have God as our Father; we have Christ as our brother.

He also had to become man to become our high priest. Later on in the book of Hebrews it says that “we do not have a high priest who cannot be touched with the feelings of our infirmities.” No, we have somebody who partook of flesh and blood, somebody who was hungry and thirsty, who knew the power of rejection. Somebody who hurt when stones were thrown at Him. And Somebody who felt the full effect of the whippings and the beatings that He received on His way to the cross.

The exaltation of Jesus reminds us of our own triumph. The fact that He is in heaven today is evidence that we will participate with Him as heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ.

You may wonder how to get in on all these benefits. Are they ours simply because we are human? Emphatically, No! There are multitudes who will never benefit from the coming of Jesus Christ. In fact, they will be judged by Him. You must begin by understanding the real purpose of Christ’s coming; the entry point is becoming one of His children. It’s the entry point of forgiveness, receiving the gift of eternal life.

Many years ago, I am told, during the days of Czar Nicholas of Russia, a young man whose father was a friend of the Czar was given a great responsibility. He was charged with doling out the money to the troops in the barracks. The problem was that this young man had a gambling habit. He used the troops’ money and was losing it rapidly. The troops were not being paid. An awesome debt was mounting. When he was told that Czar Nicholas himself was going to come to look at the books, he sat down and found out how much he owed and then wrote beneath it, “Too much to pay! Who can pay?” He put a gun at his side and said that at midnight he would do the only honorable thing - blow his brains out!

As he was sitting there, he fell asleep. The Czar himself walked by and had heard stories of the young man’s dishonesty. He looked at the ledger and was ready to have him arrested. But then when he saw those words, “Too much to pay! Who can pay?”, his heart was touched. The Czar himself wrote under the words in the ledger, “Nicholas can pay.” And when the young man awoke, he checked the authenticity of the signature and found that it truly was that of Nicholas. He was so overwhelmed that he became a most loyal supporter of Nicholas from that time on. Because in truth, only one person could pay, and that was Nicholas, the highest ranking representative of the government.

And that’s the bottom line of the Christmas story. Not one of us can pay. The debt is too much. Our sin is too great. But thankfully, Jesus Christ can pay and He came to pay. Not as the Angel of the Lord, but He came as man. The Word became flesh, and He died on a cross. He shed real blood that dripped onto some real dirt. He felt some real pain on a roughly hewn real cross and He died for sinners.

And for those who now say, “I have nothing to pay but I cast myself upon His mercy totally,” they receive from Him the words, “Christ can pay.” And then along with the forgiveness comes the brotherhood of Christ, comes the high priesthood of Christ, comes the exaltation with Christ.

And it’s all free when we repent of our sins and believe.

All rights reserved for all transcripts, and all material. ©2004 The Moody Church, Chicago. Permission is granted to print and/or store the contents in computer form provided the content is not changed in any way

www.moodychurch.org/radio/transcripts/Christbefore.html


Roo

[kangaroojack]

To All,

I repeat that I am not replying to arguments in this thread.

A. A. Hodge on the Messenger of the Lord:

Though no analogy exists by which we may illustrate the mysterious person of Christ, there is a most remarkable type in Exodus 3:2-6. The "flame of fire" in the midst of the "bush," was an emblem of the presence of God indwelling the Man Christ Jesus. Observe that the One who appeared there to Moses is termed, first, "the angel of the LORD," which declares the relation of Christ to the Father, namely, "the angel (messenger) of the covenant." But secondly, this angel said unto Moses, "I am the God of Abraham," that is what He was absolutely in Himself. The fire—emblem of Him who is a "consuming fire"—placed itself in a bush (a thing of the earth), where it burned, yet the bush was not consumed. A remarkable foreshadowing this was of the "fullness of the Godhead," dwelling in Christ (Col. 2:9). That this is the meaning of the type is clear, when we read of "The good will of him that dwelt in the bush" (Deut. 33:16).

www.pbministries.org/books...._30.htm

Roo

[kangaroojack]

Wil pounds on the Messenger of the Lord:

Several things stand out about this angel in various passages of Scripture.

"The angel of the LORD" was a divine personage and "He is to be regarded as a kind of pre–incarnation of the Messiah." The identity of "the angel of the LORD" with Yahweh is fully established in v. 13. "Then she called the name of the Lord who spoke to her, 'You are a God who sees'; for she said, 'Have I even remained alive here after seeing Him?'" The angel of the LORD is not a created being, but the divine being Himself. He is "in a class by Himself and recognized as a superior being by the writers of the Old Testament."
The angel of the LORD definitely identifies Himself with Yahweh on various occasions. In verse ten, "Moreover, the angel of the Lord said to her, 'I will greatly multiply your descendants so that they will be too many to count.'"This is no ordinary messenger of God. He doesn't say, "God will." He says, "I will greatly multiply your descendents." Examine Genesis 18:19–21 and note who is speaking and who is making the promises to Abraham. "The angel of the LORD" in chapter seventeen is "God" in chapter eighteen. The angel of the LORD is God Himself.
The angel of the LORD reveals Himself to people and THEY UNDERSTAND HIM TO BE A DIVINE PERSON (16:13).
The writers of the Old Testament call Him Yahweh (LORD). In a time of crisis the angel of the LORD visited Gideon to give encouragement (Judges 6:11–24). It climaxes with worship in verse 20–21, "The angel of God said to him, 'Take the meat and the unleavened bread and lay them on this rock, and pour out the broth.' And he did so. Then the angel of the Lord put out the end of the staff that was in his hand and touched the meat and the unleavened bread; and fire sprang up from the rock and consumed the meat and the unleavened bread. Then the angel of the Lord vanished from his sight." Note carefully what happens next."When Gideon saw that he was the angel of the Lord, he said, 'Alas, O Lord God! For now I have seen the angel of the Lord face to face.'The Lord said to him, 'Peace to you, do not fear; you shall not die.' Then Gideon built an altar there to the Lord and named it The Lord is Peace. To this day it is still in Ophrah of the Abiezrites" (vv. 2–24).
The doctrine of the trinity of the Godhead is here implied. This theophany is in perfect accordance with the earlier foreshadowing. He is perfectly equal with God––essentially one with God, yet a distinct person from Yahweh (cf. 16:10; 17:20). Judges 2:1 has an interesting observation about the exodus. "Now the angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim. And he said, 'I brought you up out of Egypt and led you into the land which I have sworn to your fathers; and I said, ‘I will never break My covenant with you, and as for you, you shall make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land; you shall tear down their altars.’ But you have not obeyed Me; what is this you have done?"
The angel of the LORD appeared to Manoah and his wife promising them a son (Judges 13:2–23). The passage reaches its climax in verses 19–22. Manoah said to his wife, "We shall surely die, for we have seen God" (v. 22). The angel of the LORD is God....

...A theophany is a manifestation of God in visible and bodily form before the incarnation of Jesus Christ. The theophanies are chiefly appearances of the angel of the LORD, who is clearly distinct from angelic beings. They are actual occurrences, not imaginary, not hallucinatory experiences. They take place in historical settings initiated only by God.

Who is this angel of the LORD? The earliest church fathers and most conservative evangelical Bible scholars agree that the angel of the LORD is no one other than Jesus Christ, the Word of God, the second person of the God–head. These theophanies are preincarnate appearances of God the Son in human form. The angel of the LORD appeared only in the Old Testament. Theophanies are unknown in the New Testament after the permanent incarnation of Christ.

In the fullness of time, "the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. . . No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him" (John 1:14, 18). When you look into the face of the Lord Jesus Christ, you see the face of God. In Him, we have the perfect vision of what God is like. Jesus said, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wil Pounds is the Field Director for the Honduras Baptist Dental Mission in Tegucigalpa and central Honduras. Previous to God directing them to Honduras, Wil and Ann served as missionaries in Panama, Ecuador and pastored churches in the U. S. They made numerous trips to Honduras with medical and evangelism teams before assuming their new field responsibilities.


www.reformationonline.com/angel.htm

Did you notice how many times the people to whom the Messenger appeared said that they had seen God Himself?

Roo

[kangaroojack]

Genesis 16:7-16

An angel of the LORD found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, the spring on the road to Shur, 8. and said, “Hagar, slave of Sarai, where have you come from, and where are you going?” And she said, “I am running away from my mistress Sarai.” 9. And the angel of the LORD said to her, “Go back to your mistress, and submit to her harsh treatment.” 10. And the angel of the LORD said to her, “I will greatly increase your offspring, and they shall be too many to count.”

“And the angel of the LORD said to her, “I will greatly increase your offspring..” … Does that sound familiar? It should — that’s exactly what the LORD our GOD promised father Abraham. How can an angel speak in the first person so as if he is not just speaking for GOD, but is speaking as GOD?

Immediately after the angel leaves, Hagar praises the LORD, saying “You Are El-roi,” by which she meant, says the Tanakh, “Have I not gone on seeing after He saw me!” There’s this interesting phrase that appears quite often in the footnotes of the Tanakh — “meaning of Hebrew uncertain.” This notates Hagar’s exclamation above. Is the meaning really so uncertain? Who is worried about dying because GOD has spoken with and seen them? …Isn’t it usually the other way around — men think they will die for having seen GOD (or in this case, for seeing GOD’s presence in the angel of the LORD)? Why would Hagar say, “Have I not gone on seeing after He saw me!” … I find it quite likely Hagar was astonished that she was still alive after seeing and speaking with GOD… who appeared to her as this “angel of the LORD.” This angel of the LORD spoke as GOD and not for GOD. He did not say ‘the LORD says.’ He said, “I will greatly increase your offspring.”

I would like to know where in the Holy Scriptures where it says GOD cannot appear as a man.”

endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008....2%80%99

Roo