Post by kangaroojack on Sept 20, 2010 16:24:25 GMT -5
On another thread Morris said:
To All,
Our brother Morris suggests that if Calvinism is true then God is a liar for saying that He desires the salvation of "all men." But what Morris fails to realize is that the term "all men" according to Paul had reference only to those men who are covenantally in Adam. Not all men are covenantally in Adam. All are from Adam biologically. But not all men are in Adam covenantally.
In Romans chapter 5 Paul speaks of two groups of men. The group that is the object of salvation is that group of men who sinned and are condemned in Adam. The second group is that group of men who "sinned not in the likeness of Adam's transgression" (5:14). They indeed sinned and are condemned but they sinned of themselves and not in Adam. Therefore, they are not in Adam covenantally. And if not in Adam then not in Christ.
The group that is in Adam covenantally is also in Christ the second Adam. It is the same quantity of men in both instances. The men who are condemned in Adam are equally the same numerically as those that are justified in Christ. Paul refers to them as "all men." Now we know that "all men" in the sense that Morris expounds it are not justified in Christ. Paul was talking about actual justification just as surely as he was talking about actual condemnation. The number of men who are actually condemned in Adam is the same quantitatively as those who are actually justified in Christ.
Therefore, the expression "all men" in its covenantal and Biblical context always refers to those who are covenantally in Adam and in Christ.
The rest of men who "sinned not in the likeness of Adam" do not figure into the equation of things. God has provided no remedy for them at all. God has provided remedy only for those who sinned in Adam because they are also in Christ.
Roo
If what you are saying is true, then God is a liar when He says He desires all men to be saved.
To All,
Our brother Morris suggests that if Calvinism is true then God is a liar for saying that He desires the salvation of "all men." But what Morris fails to realize is that the term "all men" according to Paul had reference only to those men who are covenantally in Adam. Not all men are covenantally in Adam. All are from Adam biologically. But not all men are in Adam covenantally.
In Romans chapter 5 Paul speaks of two groups of men. The group that is the object of salvation is that group of men who sinned and are condemned in Adam. The second group is that group of men who "sinned not in the likeness of Adam's transgression" (5:14). They indeed sinned and are condemned but they sinned of themselves and not in Adam. Therefore, they are not in Adam covenantally. And if not in Adam then not in Christ.
The group that is in Adam covenantally is also in Christ the second Adam. It is the same quantity of men in both instances. The men who are condemned in Adam are equally the same numerically as those that are justified in Christ. Paul refers to them as "all men." Now we know that "all men" in the sense that Morris expounds it are not justified in Christ. Paul was talking about actual justification just as surely as he was talking about actual condemnation. The number of men who are actually condemned in Adam is the same quantitatively as those who are actually justified in Christ.
Therefore, the expression "all men" in its covenantal and Biblical context always refers to those who are covenantally in Adam and in Christ.
The rest of men who "sinned not in the likeness of Adam" do not figure into the equation of things. God has provided no remedy for them at all. God has provided remedy only for those who sinned in Adam because they are also in Christ.
Roo