Advanced Theology & Doctrine

[didymus]

All Advanced Theology & Doctrine does is make things more confusing than they have to be.

Some of the doctrines that have come out of AT&D is that angels were created on the sixth day of creation. That "faith alone" is a Calvinistic doctrine. That there is no infinity/eternity

There are some that have questions about where Christ raised from the dead. We have no scripture that tells us that, yet that seems important to some. As a matter of faith, it is enough that Christ did rise from the dead. Why do we need to know the finer points of how, when and where?

I see no problem with advancing further understanding of the truth. But when in the endeavor of advancing the truth, we go beyond truth with doctrines full of conjecture and speculation, are we not creating a whole new religion. I believe so. We do not need new religions, I am quite satisfied with the one given by Jesus and those he sent out.

now when are getting together for tea

[kangaroojack]

didymus said:

Some of the doctrines that have come out of AT&D is that angels were created on the sixth day of creation. That "faith alone" is a Calvinistic doctrine.

The "sola fide" (faith alone) principle is Reformation Theology. This is historical fact and not conjecture.

Sola fide (faith alone)
Sola gratia (grace alone)
Sola scriptura (scripture alone)
Sola Cristos (Christ alone)
Sola gloria Deo (God's glory alone)

These five solas came from Reformed Calvinists. Please give credit where credit is due.

Roo

[didymus]

I do give credit where credit is due.

Faith alone, Grace alone, Scripture alone, Christ alone, and God's glory alone, are all Biblical concepts that were around long before the Reformation. And that's a fact Jack. Forgive me, but I always wanted to say that.

By the way - how is your cold?

[kangaroojack]

Sept 17, 2010 0:04:43 GMT -5 @didymus said:

I do give credit where credit is due.

Faith alone, Grace alone, Scripture alone, Christ alone, and God's glory alone, are all Biblical concepts that were around long before the Reformation. And that's a fact Jack. Forgive me, but I always wanted to say that.

By the way - how is your cold?

Hi didymus,

The doctrine of justification by faith alone was expounded by Calvinists first.

The history of the doctrine justification by faith alone is difficult to trace before the Reformation in the 1500's. A clear line of development of this doctrine from the Apostles to Martin Luther simply does not exit. This does not mean however that this doctrine is a modern invention. The doctrine of justification by faith alone has its foundation in the purpose of God entering the human race in the person of Jesus. The doctrine of justification by faith alone may have received notable attention as stated by Martin Luther, but his statement concerning this doctrine is simply an answer to one of the oldest questions that face mankind. That question being, by what means can a person's sins be forgiven? Whereas the doctrine of justification by faith alone was essentially not a concern of the church before the Reformation, the church was concerned about the means by which one is forgiven of his sins.

The history of justification by faith alone is really the history of the church attempting to find the answer to this question, how can a man be forgiven of sins, and by what means is it accomplished? The early church viewed baptism as a means by which sins were forgiven. This made perfect sense to them for Peter himself said to repent, and be baptized for the remission of sins. This immature thinking that some human work was effectual for the remission of sins, would lead to further errors. For example, if baptism was indeed effectual for the remission of sins, how are sins to be remitted after baptism? The early church should have considered this problem, and concluded that baptism was not effectual for the remission of sin. They should have determined that no human work could accomplish this, and looked more deeply into what Christ accomplished on the cross.

www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1498316/posts

Note that the church up until the Reformation thought that salvation was by works. The church thought "immaturely" about salvation before then failing to take into account that peter's doctrine of salvation through baptism was only prepatory to Paul's faith alone doctrine.

The Calvinists were an enlightened bunch. Come to terms with the history my bro!

Now here's the deal:

Major premise: Faith alone is Calvinist doctrine.

Minor premise: Faith alone makes a clean break from the old covenant.

Minor premise: Preterism makes a clean break from the old covenant.

Conclusion: Therefore, consistent Preterism implies Calvinism.


My cold is going down to my chest now but I am not as sick as I was two days ago. Thanks for asking.

Roo

[Morris]

Job 33:14
"For God may speak in one way, or in another, Yet man does not perceive it."

I fully agree, Didy. I consider myself to be reasonably logical. I also consider that my logic has reasonable limitations. It would be rather silly to believe that we understand the nature of the spiritual realm or what takes place within it.

[kangaroojack]

Sept 17, 2010 11:11:04 GMT -5 Morris said:

Job 33:14
"For God may speak in one way, or in another, Yet man does not perceive it."

I fully agree, Didy. I consider myself to be reasonably logical. I also consider that my logic has reasonable limitations. It would be rather silly to believe that we understand the nature of the spiritual realm or what takes place within it.

Yeah! And man did not perceive faith alone until the Reformation.

Roo

[Morris]

Sept 17, 2010 11:59:18 GMT -5 @kangaroojack said:

Yeah! And man did not perceive faith alone until the Reformation.

Roo

Then what did Paul perceive when he said, "Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith" (Galatians 3:24)?

[kangaroojack]

Sept 17, 2010 12:22:02 GMT -5 Morris said:

Sept 17, 2010 11:59:18 GMT -5 @kangaroojack said:

Yeah! And man did not perceive faith alone until the Reformation.

Roo

Then what did Paul perceive when he said, "Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith" (Galatians 3:24)?

Hi Morris,

Paul was inspired so there is no comparison. It's apples and oranges bro! Men did not perceive "faith alone" until the Reformation.

The history of the doctrine justification by faith alone is difficult to trace before the Reformation in the 1500's. A clear line of development of this doctrine from the Apostles to Martin Luther simply does not exit. This does not mean however that this doctrine is a modern invention. The doctrine of justification by faith alone has its foundation in the purpose of God entering the human race in the person of Jesus. The doctrine of justification by faith alone may have received notable attention as stated by Martin Luther, but his statement concerning this doctrine is simply an answer to one of the oldest questions that face mankind. That question being, by what means can a person's sins be forgiven? Whereas the doctrine of justification by faith alone was essentially not a concern of the church before the Reformation, the church was concerned about the means by which one is forgiven of his sins.

The history of justification by faith alone is really the history of the church attempting to find the answer to this question, how can a man be forgiven of sins, and by what means is it accomplished? The early church viewed baptism as a means by which sins were forgiven. This made perfect sense to them for Peter himself said to repent, and be baptized for the remission of sins. This immature thinking that some human work was effectual for the remission of sins, would lead to further errors. For example, if baptism was indeed effectual for the remission of sins, how are sins to be remitted after baptism? The early church should have considered this problem, and concluded that baptism was not effectual for the remission of sin. They should have determined that no human work could accomplish this, and looked more deeply into what Christ accomplished on the cross.

www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1498316/posts

Roo

[didymus]

Roo said:

Hi didymus,

The doctrine of justification by faith alone was expounded by Calvinists first.
Yeah! And man did not perceive faith alone until the Reformation.

Roo

Roo,

If your statements above are true, then Christ or His sent ones/Apostles, were not the first to expound "faith alone." Then "faith alone," was not percieved by Jesus, Paul, Peter, and the rest of the apostles,Clement, Polycarp, and Ignatius. If that is true, then "faith alone," cannot be a Biblical doctrine.

[MoGrace2U]

The only reason men were not perceiving these doctrines correctly until 1500 AD is because they had screwed them up long ago with their disputations and traditions. Nothing new under the sun...

[kangaroojack]

Sept 17, 2010 16:36:50 GMT -5 MoGrace2U said:

The only reason men were not perceiving these doctrines correctly until 1500 AD is because they had screwed them up long ago with their disputations and traditions. Nothing new under the sun...

Robin,

I sincerely thank you. I am being sincere and not sarcastic. Your admission that the Reformers "correctly" perceived the precious doctrines regarding salvation delights my soul!

Unfortunately there are many who still believe as the pre-Reformation Christians believed.

Roo

[Once4all]

I don't mind giving Calvinists credit for faith alone because the Bible never says that man is saved by faith alone. Quite the contrary. The only time "faith" and "alone" appear together in one verse, it says "NOT by faith alone." (James 2:24)

[MoGrace2U]

Sept 17, 2010 20:37:51 GMT -5 Once4all said:

I don't mind giving Calvinists credit for faith alone because the Bible never says that man is saved by faith alone. Quite the contrary. The only time "faith" and "alone" appear together in one verse, it says "NOT by faith alone." (James 2:24)

ooh ouch - good find Bev!

[didymus]

Sept 17, 2010 20:37:51 GMT -5 Once4all said:

I don't mind giving Calvinists credit for faith alone because the Bible never says that man is saved by faith alone. Quite the contrary. The only time "faith" and "alone" appear together in one verse, it says "NOT by faith alone." (James 2:24)

I agree with Robin, very good Bev.