|
|
Post by kangaroojack on Aug 23, 2010 15:26:53 GMT -5
HI Bev,
I couldn't agree more with you on "conditional security."
There's no way a believer can turn from the gospel and expect to be saved.
Steve I have never been a OSAS advocate. You hear the ones who do, say that nothing can take us from the grasp of God but I believe this is faulty. We can choose to. Our free will is not lost when we get saved. Hebrews states its impossible to be restored once a person who was once enlightened turns from the truth. Hi Allyn, Those who "turn from the truth" in Hebrews 6 are those who refuse to leave the "elementary teachings" of Christ. Chew on that one for a while. They refuse to let things go like baptism for instance. What you guys call "OSAS" is not refuted in Hebrews 6 but is rather established in verse 9: Can those who have the things that "accompany salvation" lose their salvation? And what does the apostle mean in saying "though we speak in this manner?" I think he was saying, "I issue this warning though it does not actually apply to YOU." If it applies to you then your clinging to baptism or anything old covenant may put YOU at risk. God does not take it lightly when men mess with His new covenant. I am not implying anything concerning your personal relationship to God. Just trying to get you to think it through. Roo |
|
|
|
Post by Once4all on Aug 23, 2010 22:39:26 GMT -5
I have never been a OSAS advocate. You hear the ones who do, say that nothing can take us from the grasp of God but I believe this is faulty. We can choose to. Our free will is not lost when we get saved. Hebrews states its impossible to be restored once a person who was once enlightened turns from the truth. Hi Allyn, Those who "turn from the truth" in Hebrews 6 are those who refuse to leave the "elementary teachings" of Christ. Chew on that one for a while. They refuse to let things go like baptism for instance. I don't think that's quite right. Hebrews 5:12 NASB (12) For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food. They should have moved on in knowledge to where they can be teaching others the fundamental principles, but they themselves need to be taught the basics over again before they can move on. What you guys call "OSAS" is not refuted in Hebrews 6 but is rather established in verse 9: Can those who have the things that "accompany salvation" lose their salvation? And what does the apostle mean in saying "though we speak in this manner?" I think he was saying, "I issue this warning though it does not actually apply to YOU." If it applies to you then your clinging to baptism or anything old covenant may put YOU at risk. God does not take it lightly when men mess with His new covenant. I am not implying anything concerning your personal relationship to God. Just trying to get you to think it through. Roo I think it is more like warning them of the possibility, but then encouraging them that he is confident of better things for them because of their past deeds (verse 10). Yup, deeds. "Work and love": vegetation, not thorns and thistles (verses 7 & 8). And in verse 11 and 12, the writer desires they continue with such deeds so that they receive the inheritance. |
|
|
|
Post by kangaroojack on Aug 27, 2010 15:50:55 GMT -5
Bev said:
Greetings Bev,
How does your statement above negate what I said about Hebrews 6? And how long would God put up with their having to be taught the "elementary principles" over and over and over again? Those Jews who would not move on to perfection were stiff necked and they were clinging to the things of the old covenant. Chapter 6 is very clear in its defintion of apostasy. It involved drawing back to the old covenant. The new covenant was instituted at a very high price to God. This is why it is to "crucify the Son of God afresh" and to "put Him to an open shame" when men cling to old covenant things including baptism.
It was not the adulterer who was at risk. It was the "righteous" who nullified God's new covenant.
Bev said:
The apostle explicitly said that his warnings did not apply to them because they had the things which "accompany salvation." Those who have the things that accompany salvation cannot not bring forth thorns and thistles. That is, they cannot cling to and perpetuate the things of the old covenant. They bring people to Christ as the sole basis of salvation. These are their "works of love."
Roo
|
|
