Post by didymus on Apr 8, 2010 10:27:34 GMT -5
Romans 7.15-20 states:
For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. - NKJV
It seems that in the thread entitled "Spirit and Words," became a discussion on whether Christians have sin in them or not. Rather than post this in that thread, I thought it more appropriate to start another thread, as it appears to me, the addition of these comments would really take that thread way off topic.
Paul, in Romans 7.15-20 writes about the struggle he had, being able to do things he did not want to do, and not being able to do things he wanted to do. He says that the things that he does not want to do is because of sin that dwells in him.
Paul concludes in verses 24 and 25: "O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin."
I believe this struggle would be in every Christian, to one degree or another. Some Christians may have a greater self-control than others. Yet, this struggle is always there. I know I can indentify with what Paul says here.
What Paul seems to be saying is that the intent of the heart/mind is to do what is right and good, but that the flesh has weaknesses that do not allow one to always do what it is right and good, often doing what is contrary to the intent of the heart/mind. We know it is wrong to sin, and the intent of the heart/mind is to not sin, but the intent of the flesh is to sin. The conclusion of the matter is to acknowledge that we are wretched people, in sin, and thank God that through Christ we have forgiveness and deliverence, and therefore with the heart/mind we serve the law of God, and with the flesh, the law of sin.
That brings us to Romans 8.1&2:
"There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death."
Is there no condemnation because we no longer sin? What did Paul just say? With the heart/mind he serves the law of God, and with the flesh, the law of sin. There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ, that not walk according to the flesh, but the Spirit. There is life in the Spirit, and through this life in the Spirit we are freed from the law of sin and death. Does that mean we no longer sin? No, not at all. The flesh, which is corrupted is governed by the law of sin and death. No flesh will ever enter the kingdom of Christ, so what does it matter what we do in the flesh? Remember, Paul calls the flesh, "this body of death." There is no condemnation in our spirit, for it is in our spirit where our heart/mind resides, and with the heart/mind we serve the law of God. So, when we sin in the flesh, it is not really us doing the sin, it is sin that dwells in our flesh. Spiritually, we are set free from the law of sin and death, and being set free we have no condemnation, in our spirit. The condemnation for sin and death is in the flesh.
This indicates that we have one life in the flesh governed by sin, and another life in the spirit governed by the law of God.
Now, I know that this is hard to understand. That's Paul's writings. But there is one verse that will make this more understandable. That's Hebrews 4.12, which says, "For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." The word of God is able to distinguish where the flesh ends and the spirit begins. And I find that thought awsome.
We know that God judges the hearts of men. Right? He knows the thoughts and intents of the heart. So, even though we sin in the flesh, which is governed by the law of sin, if our thoughts and intents of the heart are to serve the law of God, how is God going to judge that? If our hearts are centered on Christ, even though we sin in the flesh, God will see that our hearts are centered on Christ, and judge us not guilty. Remember, God judges the hearts. But if our hearts are intent on sin, then we will be found guilty, and we will need to repent.
The flesh has no hope at all, being governed by the law of sin. And the wages of sin is...................... That's right - death. And what will happen to the flesh. It will die, even though we who are in Christ will continue to live in the Spirit.
What do you think?
Professor Didy
For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. - NKJV
It seems that in the thread entitled "Spirit and Words," became a discussion on whether Christians have sin in them or not. Rather than post this in that thread, I thought it more appropriate to start another thread, as it appears to me, the addition of these comments would really take that thread way off topic.
Paul, in Romans 7.15-20 writes about the struggle he had, being able to do things he did not want to do, and not being able to do things he wanted to do. He says that the things that he does not want to do is because of sin that dwells in him.
Paul concludes in verses 24 and 25: "O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin."
I believe this struggle would be in every Christian, to one degree or another. Some Christians may have a greater self-control than others. Yet, this struggle is always there. I know I can indentify with what Paul says here.
What Paul seems to be saying is that the intent of the heart/mind is to do what is right and good, but that the flesh has weaknesses that do not allow one to always do what it is right and good, often doing what is contrary to the intent of the heart/mind. We know it is wrong to sin, and the intent of the heart/mind is to not sin, but the intent of the flesh is to sin. The conclusion of the matter is to acknowledge that we are wretched people, in sin, and thank God that through Christ we have forgiveness and deliverence, and therefore with the heart/mind we serve the law of God, and with the flesh, the law of sin.
That brings us to Romans 8.1&2:
"There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death."
Is there no condemnation because we no longer sin? What did Paul just say? With the heart/mind he serves the law of God, and with the flesh, the law of sin. There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ, that not walk according to the flesh, but the Spirit. There is life in the Spirit, and through this life in the Spirit we are freed from the law of sin and death. Does that mean we no longer sin? No, not at all. The flesh, which is corrupted is governed by the law of sin and death. No flesh will ever enter the kingdom of Christ, so what does it matter what we do in the flesh? Remember, Paul calls the flesh, "this body of death." There is no condemnation in our spirit, for it is in our spirit where our heart/mind resides, and with the heart/mind we serve the law of God. So, when we sin in the flesh, it is not really us doing the sin, it is sin that dwells in our flesh. Spiritually, we are set free from the law of sin and death, and being set free we have no condemnation, in our spirit. The condemnation for sin and death is in the flesh.
This indicates that we have one life in the flesh governed by sin, and another life in the spirit governed by the law of God.
Now, I know that this is hard to understand. That's Paul's writings. But there is one verse that will make this more understandable. That's Hebrews 4.12, which says, "For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." The word of God is able to distinguish where the flesh ends and the spirit begins. And I find that thought awsome.
We know that God judges the hearts of men. Right? He knows the thoughts and intents of the heart. So, even though we sin in the flesh, which is governed by the law of sin, if our thoughts and intents of the heart are to serve the law of God, how is God going to judge that? If our hearts are centered on Christ, even though we sin in the flesh, God will see that our hearts are centered on Christ, and judge us not guilty. Remember, God judges the hearts. But if our hearts are intent on sin, then we will be found guilty, and we will need to repent.
The flesh has no hope at all, being governed by the law of sin. And the wages of sin is...................... That's right - death. And what will happen to the flesh. It will die, even though we who are in Christ will continue to live in the Spirit.
What do you think?
Professor Didy
