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Post by didymus on Mar 22, 2010 5:35:00 GMT -5
In all my days, I have never seen a more blatant disregard of the American people. Democrats just rammed healthcare reform down our collective throats, in spite of the news reports that poll after poll showed that the majority of those polled said they did not want this bill. These idiots just did it anyway. How long will it take for American citizens to be rounded up and put in jail because they're not buying health insurance. Folks, I thought we lived in a country that cherished freedom. Obviously, Democrats in Congress only care about freedom for themselves as they are exempt from the punitive measures of this bill. Of course. Well, they need to become private citizens, then as soon as possible, round them up and put them in jail. And why should they be put in jail. Because they are a bunch of traitors to the Constitution. It is unconstitutional to force the people to buy anything. What's next? Laws forcing the American people to buy cars from Government Motors. If they can pass one law forcing us to buy something we might not want, they certain can do it again, and again. That is why Democrats must go.  |
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Post by Allyn on Mar 22, 2010 6:58:52 GMT -5
In all my days, I have never seen a more blatant disregard of the American people. Democrats just rammed healthcare reform down our collective throats, in spite of the news reports that poll after poll showed that the majority of those polled said they did not want this bill. These idiots just did it anyway. How long will it take for American citizens to be rounded up and put in jail because they're not buying health insurance. Folks, I thought we lived in a country that cherished freedom. Obviously, Democrats in Congress only care about freedom for themselves as they are exempt from the punitive measures of this bill. Of course. Well, they need to become private citizens, then as soon as possible, round them up and put them in jail. And why should they be put in jail. Because they are a bunch of traitors to the Constitution. It is unconstitutional to force the people to buy anything. What's next? Laws forcing the American people to buy cars from Government Motors. If they can pass one law forcing us to buy something we might not want, they certain can do it again, and again. That is why Democrats must go. I had my hopes that the right thing would be done. Not so. I am a self-employed person. We have never been able to afford health insurance because the rates were too high and the deductables were ridiculous. However, in the 20 years of my business and having raised my children during that time we never had to use the doctor or hospital beyond the point of what we were able to pay out of pocket. With that I feel blessed and continue to rely on God this way. But now the government wants to fine me for my faith and possibly jail me. It won't sway me. |
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Post by Morris on Mar 22, 2010 9:21:28 GMT -5
I have to buy auto-insurance. No choice in the matter. I've had vehicles in which the premiums cost more than the car itself. Still had to have it.
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Post by didymus on Mar 22, 2010 11:06:38 GMT -5
I have to buy auto-insurance. No choice in the matter. I've had vehicles in which the premiums cost more than the car itself. Still had to have it. Morris, we don't have the "right" to drive a car. That's a privilege. We do have the right to life, at least after birth in this country. We have the right to be secure in our homes, in our papers, and IN OUR PERSONS! So says the Constitution. That tells me we have the right to make our decisions regarding that which pertains to our person. That would include health-care. But, you see, these Democrats, like Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and Barack Obama, just don't care about the Constitution. And, obviously all the other Democrats that voted for this massive government control bill, they don't care about the Constitution either. So, they all got to go. They are as un-American as Castro. |
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Post by Sower on Mar 22, 2010 11:16:08 GMT -5
My husband and I are blessed to have excellent healthcare. My concern is for thirty two million people without healthcare, and for their sake I'm glad it passed!
The Sower~
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Post by Morris on Mar 22, 2010 12:39:33 GMT -5
That tells me we have the right to make our decisions regarding that which pertains to our person. I don't quite see your logic on this one, but that's just me. If driving is a 'privilege', and so is medical care, why must I have insurance for one and not the other? Nobody wants to pay for insurance until you're in the situation where you need it. Many people don't drive and yet they have to pay taxes which go to building and maintaining roadways. The way I see it, insurance works exactly the same way. |
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Post by mellontes on Mar 22, 2010 13:16:41 GMT -5
I guess we could add those who home school and still have to pay taxes for the government education system, which is a big chunk I believe...
Weren't government taxes a temporary war measure in the first place?
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Post by didymus on Mar 22, 2010 13:22:04 GMT -5
That tells me we have the right to make our decisions regarding that which pertains to our person. I don't quite see your logic on this one, but that's just me. If driving is a 'privilege', and so is medical care, why must I have insurance for one and not the other? Nobody wants to pay for insurance until you're in the situation where you need it. Many people don't drive and yet they have to pay taxes which go to building and maintaining roadways. The way I see it, insurance works exactly the same way. Morris, please read the 4th Amendment to the Constitution, then please tell me what it means.  |
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Post by didymus on Mar 22, 2010 13:27:59 GMT -5
My husband and I are blessed to have excellent healthcare. My concern is for thirty two million people without healthcare, and for their sake I'm glad it passed! The Sower~ Are you saying that for the sake of those supposed 32,000,000, many of whom are illegal aliens and some who do not want to buy health insurance, the rest of us must give up our freedom? |
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Post by Allyn on Mar 22, 2010 15:02:34 GMT -5
My husband and I are blessed to have excellent healthcare. My concern is for thirty two million people without healthcare, and for their sake I'm glad it passed! The Sower~ Are you saying that for the sake of those supposed 32,000,000, many of whom are illegal aliens and some who do not want to buy health insurance, the rest of us must give up our freedom? If this question were directed towards me I would answer by saying that I want Insurance for my family based upon my decision and not based on what the government thinks I need. I have been self-insured for almost 20 years and I want it to remain that way. That is what I would say if I had been asked  |
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Post by Sower on Mar 22, 2010 15:11:24 GMT -5
My husband and I are blessed to have excellent healthcare. My concern is for thirty two million people without healthcare, and for their sake I'm glad it passed! The Sower~ Are you saying that for the sake of those supposed 32,000,000, many of whom are illegal aliens and some who do not want to buy health insurance, the rest of us must give up our freedom? Hi Didymus, No! However, I don't see helping someone with health care as giving up freedom, but rather as helping those that cannot help themselves. The Sower~ |
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Post by Morris on Mar 22, 2010 16:02:15 GMT -5
Truthfully, I don't have much of a right to this discussion, being a Canadian.
However, I still don't quite understand this 'giving up of freedom' thing, and that probably has to do with me being in Canada. We have mandatory health insurance premiums that are essentially paid through taxes. If I didn't have to pay it through the tax system and would therefore have to source my own supplier, I'd do that.
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Post by Sower on Mar 22, 2010 18:39:38 GMT -5
Are you saying that for the sake of those supposed 32,000,000, many of whom are illegal aliens and some who do not want to buy health insurance, the rest of us must give up our freedom? If this question were directed towards me Hi Allyn, This question was directed to Didymus, however, you and all are welcome to respond. I think must responsible people agree! I think must people would agree they need it, but they may not be able to afford it. That's great! I wish all people were so blessed. However, for those without health insurance because they cannot afford it, I suspect if asked, they would say they're glad it will not remain that way. So am I. I wonder what Jesus would say? Blessings, The Sower~ |
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Post by mellontes on Mar 22, 2010 21:37:50 GMT -5
I apologize for being off topic, but perhaps you can see the analogy.
(This is not addressed to any specific person on this thread)
I honestly wonder what would happen if I posed as a down-and-outer and lay in the ditch of a nearby evangelical church on Sunday morning just prior to the morning service as if I had passed out from either 1) exhaustion, 2) hunger, or 3) drugs.
I think 3 things could happen:
1) People would walk by with their noses in the air
2) People would look with compassion but continue walking because of the tongue-lashing they would receive if they were late for service again.
3) Actually stop and help, even if it meant missing the entire morning service.
I bet the percentage would be relatively low for point #3...
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Post by didymus on Mar 23, 2010 1:11:21 GMT -5
Are you saying that for the sake of those supposed 32,000,000, many of whom are illegal aliens and some who do not want to buy health insurance, the rest of us must give up our freedom? Hi Didymus, No! However, I don't see helping someone with health care as giving up freedom, but rather as helping those that cannot help themselves. The Sower~ Did you know the bill they passed, and that Obama will likely sign into law, has a provision that if you don't buy health insurance, you will be fined, and go to jail for up to 5 years. There is also a provision in this bill that if businesses that do not now provide healthcare for their employees, they will have to, or pay a fine. Many small businesses will probably go out of business. And the people those businesses employ will be out of a job. Then how are those people going to be insured? They won't be able to afford to buy insurance. So they will be fined, and go to jail. Making sure those 32,000,000 had healthcare could have done simply by changing the qualifications of Medicare and Medicaid, and that would have solved a lot of that problem, and it would not have cast the taxpayers 1.8 trillion dollars over the next 10 years. Believe me. I have been involved in politics for a long time. I venture to say, I know politics more than I know the Bible. I know the Constitution. And this bill is not Constitutional. But does that matter anymore. I remember a radio program called "Back to the Bible." Well, this country (US) needs to get back to the Constitution. |
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Post by didymus on Mar 23, 2010 2:04:29 GMT -5
I apologize for being off topic, but perhaps you can see the analogy. (This is not addressed to any specific person on this thread) I honestly wonder what would happen if I posed as a down-and-outer and lay in the ditch of a nearby evangelical church on Sunday morning just prior to the morning service as if I had passed out from either 1) exhaustion, 2) hunger, or 3) drugs. I think 3 things could happen: 1) People would walk by with their noses in the air 2) People would look with compassion but continue walking because of the tongue-lashing they would receive if they were late for service again. 3) Actually stop and help, even if it meant missing the entire morning service. I bet the percentage would be relatively low for point #3... Yes it is off topic, but it's a great point. If Christians (i.e., the churches) would help people with food, shelter, clothing, and healthcare, the government would not have to. Then we wouldn't be going through this mess. Before someone says it, I know the church does some of that. But, not to the point they could. I once read somewhere that the church controls 1/8 of our economy. Religion has become a big business, and it is largely untaxed. Look at the sales of religious books and Bible sales. That amounts to billions of dollars per year. And what happens to all that money? Multi-million dollar buildings. Multi-million satellite networks. And what about some of the pastors' salaries, who have to have a new Cadillac every year. I've known some of them through the years. Some televangelists have multi-million dollar mansions with multi-million dollar security systems. Have you watched Jim Bakker lately? They have a lot of land. What are they doing with it. They have these great big buildings they want to build to house their multi-million dollar multi-media network, so they can reach the world with the gospel of Christ. Isn't that nice? I think I heard them talk about rides for the kids that the parents will have to pay for them to ride. Actually, I am not quite sure about that. When I have the remote in my hand, and I am looking for something to watch, and come to the Jim Bakker show, I don't stay very long. But sometimes long enough to here plans for the land. You know they want reach the world for Christ. And, you know they love the kids, so they will do something for the kids. I got the impression they want to rebuild the PTL club again. Back then, it was just millions, but today it will probably be billions. There you have it. 1/8 of the economy going to that stuff. I will admit that I read about the 1/8 economy about 12 years ago. It's probably less now, because all businesses are hurting. But, be assured. The religion industry is still making a big profit every year. And with that big profit, they sure are not helping the poor and needy all that much. That same article also said that about 7% of all that money actually helps people. Keep in mind, it is about 12 years since I read that article. But, it made an impact on me. So these might not be the exact numbers, but they are close. God bless. |
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Post by stephenpatrick on Mar 23, 2010 9:07:18 GMT -5
Good morning.
Since when has the Constitution ever been a consideration for those in Washington? I never heard a peep out of most evangelicals when the Bush administration was blowing up other countries, slaughtering real walking, talking and breathing human beings. And all of it was based on lies. ALL OF IT! Those wicked evil Muslims. Yet the Christians in this country not only remained silent, but gave wholehearted support for it. I experienced it in my church. Remember Hagee? And Robertson? Calls for more war, now on Iran and assassinating presidents of other countries? Praise the Lord!
So when the Democrats, who are no different than the Republicans, (read corrupt) or any other politician, decide to ram through some piece of legislation that takes some money out of the pockets of Christians to provide health care for all of its citizens instead of taking money out of their pockets to promote the usual misery, bloodshed, democracy, and empire around the world, the Christians scream foul.
God help us . . .
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Post by mellontes on Mar 23, 2010 12:09:21 GMT -5
Good morning. Since when has the Constitution ever been a consideration for those in Washington? I never heard a peep out of most evangelicals when the Bush administration was blowing up other countries, slaughtering real walking, talking and breathing human beings. And all of it was based on lies. ALL OF IT! Those wicked evil Muslims. Yet the Christians in this country not only remained silent, but gave wholehearted support for it. I experienced it in my church. Remember Hagee? And Robertson? Calls for more war, now on Iran and assassinating presidents of other countries? Praise the Lord! So when the Democrats, who are no different than the Republicans, (read corrupt) or any other politician, decide to ram through some piece of legislation that takes some money out of the pockets of Christians to provide health care for all of its citizens instead of taking money out of their pockets to promote the usual misery, bloodshed, democracy, and empire around the world, the Christians scream foul. God help us . . . Seconded...all in favor...those opposed...motion carried! We all need to quit our jobs for one year to go and help build an irrigation system in a third world country, or pass out Bibles to Palestinians, or witness to Haitian voodoo priests. It would do us a world of good! |
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Post by Morris on Mar 23, 2010 12:36:48 GMT -5
Good afternoon! and excellent post! Amen. |
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Post by didymus on Mar 23, 2010 13:22:17 GMT -5
Good morning. Since when has the Constitution ever been a consideration for those in Washington? I never heard a peep out of most evangelicals when the Bush administration was blowing up other countries, slaughtering real walking, talking and breathing human beings. And all of it was based on lies. ALL OF IT! Those wicked evil Muslims. Yet the Christians in this country not only remained silent, but gave wholehearted support for it. I experienced it in my church. Remember Hagee? And Robertson? Calls for more war, now on Iran and assassinating presidents of other countries? Praise the Lord! So when the Democrats, who are no different than the Republicans, (read corrupt) or any other politician, decide to ram through some piece of legislation that takes some money out of the pockets of Christians to provide health care for all of its citizens instead of taking money out of their pockets to promote the usual misery, bloodshed, democracy, and empire around the world, the Christians scream foul. God help us . . . All great points. I agree most-heartedly. But nothing you said makes it alright for the treason the Democrats just committed. |
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Post by Sower on Mar 24, 2010 11:48:04 GMT -5
Good morning. Since when has the Constitution ever been a consideration for those in Washington? I never heard a peep out of most evangelicals when the Bush administration was blowing up other countries, slaughtering real walking, talking and breathing human beings. And all of it was based on lies. ALL OF IT! Those wicked evil Muslims. Yet the Christians in this country not only remained silent, but gave wholehearted support for it. I experienced it in my church. Remember Hagee? And Robertson? Calls for more war, now on Iran and assassinating presidents of other countries? Praise the Lord! So when the Democrats, who are no different than the Republicans, (read corrupt) or any other politician, decide to ram through some piece of legislation that takes some money out of the pockets of Christians to provide health care for all of its citizens instead of taking money out of their pockets to promote the usual misery, bloodshed, democracy, and empire around the world, the Christians scream foul. God help us . . . We, need it! The Sower~ |
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Post by didymus on Mar 24, 2010 13:00:55 GMT -5
Sower, I did not see anyone in here suggest that the poor and needy don't need help with the cost of healthcare. Most of the people on here are just as compassionate as you when it comes to helping the poor and needy. But that is not the issue. If all they wanted to do was help the poor and needy with the cost of healthcare, there were some very simple solutions that I would support. They could change the qualifications for Medicare and Medicaid to include more people. They could pass a law that would provide that no doctor could refuse anyone medical care because of their inability to pay. Doctors already take an oath to that effect. But, like so many people who take oaths, they don't abide by it. The bill that was signed into law yesterday is not about that. It is a Washington power grab pure and simple. Do you want to see Allyn go out of business? Or fined? Or in jail? There are provisions in this law that could make that happen. And there are thousands of self-employed people like Allyn. Many of them will be forced out of business. Many will be fined if they don't buy health insurance. Some of them will wind up in jail. Is that what you want? I am sorry, but that is the plain truth. And what's going to happen when the health insurance industry tanks under the weight of the new massive regulations. That might take a little time, but it will happen. Than government will then enact universal healthcare - then you and your husband will have no choice. I could go on and on about what is going to happen as a result of this law if it is allowed to stand. Sower, this country is heading down the road of the Third Reich. I hope you see that before it's too late.  |
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Post by Allyn on Mar 24, 2010 17:41:15 GMT -5
Sower, I did not see anyone in here suggest that the poor and needy don't need help with the cost of healthcare. Most of the people on here are just as compassionate as you when it comes to helping the poor and needy. But that is not the issue. If all they wanted to do was help the poor and needy with the cost of healthcare, there were some very simple solutions that I would support. They could change the qualifications for Medicare and Medicaid to include more people. They could pass a law that would provide that no doctor could refuse anyone medical care because of their inability to pay. Doctors already take an oath to that effect. But, like so many people who take oaths, they don't abide by it. The bill that was signed into law yesterday is not about that. It is a Washington power grab pure and simple. Do you want to see Allyn go out of business? Or fined? Or in jail? There are provisions in this law that could make that happen. And there are thousands of self-employed people like Allyn. Many of them will be forced out of business. Many will be fined if they don't buy health insurance. Some of them will wind up in jail. Is that what you want? I am sorry, but that is the plain truth. And what's going to happen when the health insurance industry tanks under the weight of the new massive regulations. That might take a little time, but it will happen. Than government will then enact universal healthcare - then you and your husband will have no choice. I could go on and on about what is going to happen as a result of this law if it is allowed to stand. Sower, this country is heading down the road of the Third Reich. I hope you see that before it's too late. If I'm not mistaken, I think sower was responding to Stephenpatrick where he said "God help us" and she said "we need it" If so, I agree completely. |
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Post by didymus on Mar 24, 2010 19:04:57 GMT -5
Allyn & Sower,  I am deeply sorry if I misunderstood her meaning. I hope no one was hurt by the misunderstanding. However, everything I said about this law is true. It has been widely reported for months. Please forgive me if I've hurt anyone. And, by the way, I agree, we do need God's help. |
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Post by Allyn on Mar 24, 2010 19:50:16 GMT -5
Allyn & Sower, I am deeply sorry if I misunderstood her meaning. I hope no one was hurt by the misunderstanding. However, everything I said about this law is true. It has been widely reported for months. Please forgive me if I've hurt anyone. And, by the way, I agree, we do need God's help. As far as I'm concerned its nothing for you to be sorry about. Its real hard to follow conversations or small comments anyway so no problem brother. |
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Post by didymus on Mar 25, 2010 0:31:14 GMT -5
Still, a misunderstanding like that could have dire consequences, that is why it is so important to speak clearly. Yet, I should have realized she was responding to the post directly before hers. But that thought never crossed my mind. In any event, I am very sorry for the misunderstanding. President Didy - 2012  |
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Post by Sower on Mar 25, 2010 12:58:58 GMT -5
Hi Didymus,
Thanks, for the apology!
No, I do not want to see Allyn (or, anyone else) put out of business, go to jail, or fined.
Blessings,
Sower~
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