|
|
Post by john14and9 on Oct 1, 2008 21:45:47 GMT -5
How many here can prove Jesus still has the same body He left with in Acts 1:11?
I find it interesting that those of Acts 1:11 were the last to see THAT body Jesus had...His next appearance in scripture was in Acts to the apostle Paul..let us look at something..
Acts 8 lets us know that there was great persecution going on..
Acts 9:1-2- Meanwhile Saul still breathed threats of murder against the disciples of the Lord. He went to the high priest
2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues at Damascus empowering him to put any man or woman in chains whom he could find belonging to the Way, and bring them to Jerusalem
It is clear here..Paul is persecuting the saints right?
Acts 9:3-5
And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
What did He see?..Why was it not that same physical Jesus in Acts 1:11?
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
What?..Acts 9:1-2 says Paul was persecuting the saints!!!!!!!
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Again..Jesus clearly said...WHOM THOU persecute!..
I am here to contend Paul did not see a physical Jesus...in fact we have at least 2 other accounts of where Paul explains his story..Acts 22 and 26..and in both accounts He mentions those that were with him saw the light [no pun]
Acts 26:19 identifies what exactly it was..
Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision
Paul saw a vision!!
Yet Paul testifies..He saw Jesus! 1 Cor 15
Paul later wrote to Eph 1:22-23
And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
Eph 5:30- For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 4:4- There is one body,
Is Jesus still physical?
Your thoughts
|
|
|
|
Post by Once4all on Oct 2, 2008 17:35:59 GMT -5
No comments to make right now, but just wanted to say that I think it's a good post with good points. The thing to explore would be what exactly is the nature and use of the term "body" when referring to the church? Couldn't "one body" in Ephesians 4:4 be the same as saying "one church"? If it read "one church" instead of "one body," could it still be used as an argument that Christ has no physical body?
How can other scriptures that speak of Christ's body play into this idea? (Such as "This is my body given for you" and "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life."
OK, for someone who wasn't going to make any comments, I sure typed a lot. But they're all questions for thought and discussion.
|
|
|
|
Post by Allyn on Oct 2, 2008 17:39:43 GMT -5
This is a good thread. I want to add my thoughts to it. I will be back
|
|
|
|
Post by mellontes on Oct 2, 2008 20:17:59 GMT -5
How can other scriptures that speak of Christ's body play into this idea? (Such as "This is my body given for you" and "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life." A few thoughts before I head off...I have a feeling that there were two flesh and bloods - one for old covenant and one for the new. Look up the references to the phrase "flesh and blood" and see if there is a possibility. I am convinced that "flesh" often spoke of the old covenant, but not always... |
|
|
|
Post by Sower on Oct 3, 2008 11:20:12 GMT -5
Excellent post!
I believe Acts 1:11, pertained to the mode/way by which Jesus was taken/ascended to heaven, and would come/descend (i.e. the cloud) rather than the manner/nature of his body.
As your OP show, Jesus was not seen visibly when he appeared to Paul on the Damacus road.
It should be noted that after that appearance, Paul said the Lord is "now" invisible...
1 Timothy 2:17 NOW unto the King eternal, immortaly, INVISIBLE, the only wise God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. A'-men.
Lady Sower~
|
|
|
|
Post by Once4all on Oct 3, 2008 17:43:18 GMT -5
... It should be noted that after that appearance, Paul said the Lord is "now" invisible... 1 Timothy 2:17 NOW unto the King eternal, immortaly, INVISIBLE, the only wise God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. A'-men. Hi Sower, That would be 1 Timothy 1:17. Personally, I don't believe he is writing about Jesus there. If you do a search for the phrase "Now to" in the New Testament (NASB), you'll see that Paul uses it consistently to indicate a change in direction or subject when he starts a sentence. In 1 Timothy 1:17, he "now" turns from discussing Jesus to giving glory to God. |
|
|
|
Post by Sower on Oct 3, 2008 18:53:24 GMT -5
... It should be noted that after that appearance, Paul said the Lord is "now" invisible... 1 Timothy 2:17 NOW unto the King eternal, immortaly, INVISIBLE, the only wise God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. A'-men. Hi Sower, That would be 1 Timothy 1:17. Hi Once4all, Thank you, for the correction! Compare... Jude 1:25 To "the only wise God" our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. The only wise God, is our Saviour. In your opinion about whom is Jude speaking?  Blessings, Lady Sower~ |
|
|
|
Post by john14and9 on Oct 3, 2008 20:35:56 GMT -5
Excellent post! I believe Acts 1:11, pertained to the mode/way by which Jesus was taken/ascended to heaven, and would come/descend (i.e. the cloud) rather than the manner/nature of his body. As your OP show, Jesus was not seen visibly when he appeared to Paul on the Damacus road. It should be noted that after that appearance, Paul said the Lord is "now" invisible... 1 Timothy 2:17 NOW unto the King eternal, immortaly, INVISIBLE, the only wise God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. A'-men. Lady Sower~ Hello everyone..let me add to the pile..lol Look and think about this...we all know Jesus appeared to his disciples after He rose from the dead,we also know Jesus ate right in front of their eyes and of course those disciples saw Jesus leave the ground and ascend up and a cloud received him how? OUT of their site!..this same Jesus would come in "like manner" hmm..When was He taken?.. Ok..another thought...John was one of the disciples right?..of course This same John who saw a risen physical Jesus also later wrote 1 Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. What?..John you mean you saw a risen physical Jesus yet you state here..it does not yet appear?.. Seems John is saying..the body Jesus had is not what they would receive[or us today]..that is..because it has not yet been revealed.. I believe this goes along with 2 Cor 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: which goes with..1 cor 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. back up to vs 38- But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. I understand the IT in this verse 1 cor 15:38 is not found in the original greek.. Just something to think about.. |
|
|
|
Post by Sower on Oct 3, 2008 21:05:17 GMT -5
Hello John14and9 Excellent points and observation! Lady Sower~ |
|
|
|
Post by Once4all on Oct 4, 2008 13:10:55 GMT -5
Hi Sower, That would be 1 Timothy 1:17. Hi Once4all, Thank you, for the correction! Compare... Jude 1:25 To "the only wise God" our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. The only wise God, is our Saviour. In your opinion about whom is Jude speaking? Blessings, Lady Sower~ "to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord..." (Jude 1:25, NASB) The "only God our Savior" is God the Father (the only true God). |
|
|
|
Post by Once4all on Oct 4, 2008 13:14:58 GMT -5
Hello John14and9 Excellent points and observation! Lady Sower~ I agree, good job on that post, John14and9. |
|
|
|
Post by Sower on Oct 4, 2008 14:13:43 GMT -5
Hi Once4all, Thank you, for the correction! Compare... Jude 1:25 To "the only wise God" our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. The only wise God, is our Saviour. In your opinion about whom is Jude speaking? Blessings, Lady Sower~ "to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord..." (Jude 1:25, NASB) The "only God our Savior" is God the Father (the only true God). Hi Once4all, I checked some commentaries, that confirm what you said! Thanks and blessings, Lady Sower~ |
|
|
|
Post by john14and9 on Oct 7, 2008 20:42:08 GMT -5
There are some scripture that seem to contradict what I believe and to be honest,I do not have a anwser for..
Col 2:9-For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Obviously Paul wrote this before the fall of Jerusalem...it is also after He saw the "vision"of Jesus that appeared to him on the Damascus road..
Also..Phill 3:21 is another scripture that seems to hang me up..lol
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
Seems his "glorious body"is the church..but like I said..this one hangs me up..
|
|
|
|
Post by mellontes on Oct 7, 2008 20:59:19 GMT -5
There are some scripture that seem to contradict what I believe and to be honest,I do not have a anwser for.. Col 2:9-For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Obviously Paul wrote this before the fall of Jerusalem...it is also after He saw the "vision"of Jesus that appeared to him on the Damascus road.. Also..Phill 3:21 is another scripture that seems to hang me up..lol Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. Seems his "glorious body"is the church..but like I said..this one hangs me up.. Here is my two cents worth...Study the "body" in the NT is really quite interesting. I am willing to go out aon a limb and say that most every time "body" is mentioned it is NOT speaking about our human body - it represents either the OC or NC body. It is the same with flesh. Go ahead. I recommend that every believer look up those words and go quickly through the verses (there are lots) and see if the correlation can be made. And if you see it you will gain a much better understanding (IMHO) of the resurrection of the body (covenant style rather than humanoid style)! Blessings, Ted |
|
