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Post by MoGrace2U on Feb 22, 2010 13:30:01 GMT -5
Interesting how all the rancor is allowed by the anti-prets, but when I post something about the reason for my faith - that is not tolerated! Tell me what you think. This is the copy I saved, I am not sure if there was more in the CARM post or not.
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RodE writes:
No, hyperpreterists aren't Christians. They are AD70 worshipers. The "Jesus" they claim is NOT the Jesus 2000 years of Christians have been worshiping.
Nathan (Phil?) asks:
That sounds fair I guess but what separates you from them besides of course the fact you and those you oppose you both claim to be Christians?
Robin responds:
The answer lies in the hope that we have in Christ. The full preterist anchors his hope by his faith in the things Christ has done. The anti-preterist seems to think this is a somewhat ridiculous stance to take, because he puts his hope in something he says Christ has not done.
Since we both look to the cross to see what was accomplished for our salvation there, then our understanding that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God whom the Father sent into this world for our redemption is in agreement. This belief is what makes us Christians and is why we have hope for eternal life.
Where we part therefore is concerning whether the prophetic things spoken of Christ have been fulfilled or not. I say that have, but Rod who once said they were, now doesn't think so because he accepts the idea that the resurrection of the dead is back to planet earth rather than to heaven.
History which he lauds as a high authority for his view, actually agrees with me that our hope in Christ is an heavenly one, not an earthly one. And it doesn't really matter what men might try and add to that hope to make it fit a far future scenario to support their view; because in the day that we die, we will know the truth which no event that has not taken place can supercede the realization of the hope we profess when we commit our spirits into the hands of the Lord Jesus.
We can say the wrong things and yet still maintain the right hope. And this men have been able to do since God first revealed Himself to man. If we are trusting in Christ for the hope that we have, then we are His brethren and children of God.
Whereas a damnable heresy would be one that says Jesus is not the risen Lord to whom all power in heaven and earth has been given. Or that denies we have been bought with a price, that we have forgiveness of sins or are justified in the sight of God by grace thru faith in His Son. If one denies his own redemption has been wrought by Christ then he denies his hope in Christ for eternal life.
Therefore our unity with one another is not near so important as whether one believes the record we have been given or not. I believe it because I see how these things were being revealed to that generation to whom the promise was delivered. I am not waiting for the Lord to restore 'all things' to a glorious state, because I expect to see His glory long before that. Thererfore the presence of sin in this world where death is a factor deters not my hope one bit. I am not expecting the salvation of the world, but am thankful that when He called me, He chose me unto Himself and has taught me how to answer the gainsayers about the reason for the hope that I have.
And apparently I am in good company with the historical biblical testimony of those who loved His appearing into our world too, because of the hope that He delivered to His apostles who testified to the things they saw and heard.
To be absent from the body and present with the Lord was to arrive home to be with the Lord forever. That was Paul's hope and it is mine too. And it would only be a little while before the dead were raised and all Israel would thus be saved. Paul therefore still looked forward to that time that was soon to come, but we can have great confidence that these things have been fulfilled too.
Because of the signs that would reveal it to the world, that Jesus is both Lord and Christ and the only name under heaven given to men by which they must be saved. So I have no doubts that Jesus has the power to raise the dead or to keep my soul alive, now that these things have been accomplished by the scriptures that revealed them to us. Therefore my faith rests assured in the things He HAS done for what I must still hope for Him by faith to do for me.
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Post by stephenpatrick on Feb 22, 2010 13:41:10 GMT -5
You've got to be kidding me? They removed this post?
Because you believe that Jesus fulfilled "all" that He said he would and they don't believe He did marks you as a heretic. Wow, I just don't get it.
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Post by MoGrace2U on Feb 22, 2010 13:47:25 GMT -5
I have seen the Mods act this quickly when PT gets involved. I suspect RodE can do the same since he has in the past. This is not the first time a reasonably good post from me about my faith and hope has gone the route of being deleted.
Its hard for them to show us as heretics when we talk about Christ!
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Post by Allyn on Feb 22, 2010 15:48:59 GMT -5
You said it first, Robin, but I believe absolutely that RodE has some pull with CARM. It just doesn't make sense that your post would get deleted for anyother reason but except that you spoke too much of the truth and it is a stabbing pain for them to read it.
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Post by Sower on Feb 22, 2010 16:26:04 GMT -5
I have seen the Mods act this quickly when PT gets involved. I suspect RodE can do the same since he has in the past. This is not the first time a reasonably good post from me about my faith and hope has gone the route of being deleted. Its hard for them to show us as heretics when we talk about Christ! Hi Robin, That's an excellent post! It clearly proclaims your faith in Christ, and it doesn't attack anyone. CARM is clearly bias against believers of fulfilled eschatology, eventhough we constantly profess our faith in Jesus as the Christ, and follow his teachings. Yesterday, 1TrueDisciple showed far more christian love than the mods, ever have. He disagree with us eschatologically but he knows christianity is based upon Christ not eschatology, and refused to agree with RoderickE, saying we are not christians. May God reward him for it. The mods, must know RoderickE, is wrong but they allow/ condone it maybe because they agree. May God reward them accordingly. The Sower~ |
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Post by Allyn on Feb 22, 2010 16:54:34 GMT -5
I have seen the Mods act this quickly when PT gets involved. I suspect RodE can do the same since he has in the past. This is not the first time a reasonably good post from me about my faith and hope has gone the route of being deleted. Its hard for them to show us as heretics when we talk about Christ! Hi Robin, That's an excellent post! It clearly proclaims your faith in Christ, and it doesn't attack anyone. CARM is clearly bias against believers of fulfilled eschatology, eventhough we constantly profess our faith in Jesus as the Christ, and follow his teachings. Yesterday, 1TrueDisciple showed far more christian love than the mods, ever have. He disagree with us eschatologically but he knows christianity is based upon Christ not eschatology, and refused to agree with RoderickE, saying we are not christians. May God reward him for it. The mods, must know RoderickE, is wrong but they allow/ condone it maybe because they agree. May God reward them accordingly. The Sower~ I couldn't help but say something about what you brought up, Sower. First I agree with you concerning Robin's post. What I wanted to say though is that 1Truedisciple is actually mod16. When he came in and had something to say about Rod's rant I had to snicker a little because I knew he wouldn't dare say that in his moderator hat. I felt it was good he said something but still rather dishonest that he didn't have the fortitude to say it as a mod. |
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Post by Sower on Feb 22, 2010 17:45:46 GMT -5
Hi Robin, That's an excellent post! It clearly proclaims your faith in Christ, and it doesn't attack anyone. CARM is clearly bias against believers of fulfilled eschatology, eventhough we constantly profess our faith in Jesus as the Christ, and follow his teachings. Yesterday, 1TrueDisciple showed far more christian love than the mods, ever have. He disagree with us eschatologically but he knows christianity is based upon Christ not eschatology, and refused to agree with RoderickE, saying we are not christians. May God reward him for it. The mods, must know RoderickE, is wrong but they allow/ condone it maybe because they agree. May God reward them accordingly. The Sower~ I couldn't help but say something about what you brought up, Sower. First I agree with you concerning Robin's post. What I wanted to say though is that 1Truedisciple is actually mod16. When he came in and had something to say about Rod's rant I had to snicker a little because I knew he wouldn't dare say that in his moderator hat. I felt it was good he said something but still rather dishonest that he didn't have the fortitude to say it as a mod. Hi Allyn, I didn't know that 1TrueDisciple was a mod. I readily admit my mistake and thank the Lord that at least "one" mod, had the courage and spirit to disagree with RoderickE's saying we were not christians. Thanks, The Sower~ |
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Post by Allyn on Feb 22, 2010 19:00:48 GMT -5
I couldn't help but say something about what you brought up, Sower. First I agree with you concerning Robin's post. What I wanted to say though is that 1Truedisciple is actually mod16. When he came in and had something to say about Rod's rant I had to snicker a little because I knew he wouldn't dare say that in his moderator hat. I felt it was good he said something but still rather dishonest that he didn't have the fortitude to say it as a mod.
I didn't know that 1TrueDisciple was a mod. I readily admit my mistake and thank the Lord that at least "one" mod, had the courage and spirit to disagree with RoderickE's saying we were not christians.
Thanks,
The Sower~ Hi sister, 1True is probably one of the better mods. |
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Post by MoGrace2U on Feb 23, 2010 21:41:42 GMT -5
I didn't know he was a Mod either - how did you find that out?
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Post by Allyn on Feb 23, 2010 21:57:19 GMT -5
I didn't know he was a Mod either - how did you find that out? I was a mod for a whole week (until I couldn't stand their dbl standard which I came to see) and we were privy to who the real usernames of the mods were. |
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Post by Morris on Feb 24, 2010 11:55:34 GMT -5
Wow. Yet another example of the poor taste that CARM left in my mouth. That was a great post, Robin.
I was active there for a time under the name "Sheldon" but I found that pride and being 'right' was far more important than displaying the love for one another that we were told would show the world we are followers of Christ.
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Post by MoGrace2U on Feb 24, 2010 13:28:38 GMT -5
Hi Morris, How did you get Sheldon from Morris?  I remember commenting on one of your posts, they were good too. Thanks for the encouragement. I should probably follow your lead and just abandon CARM altogether. |
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Post by Morris on Feb 24, 2010 15:05:08 GMT -5
Hi Morris, How did you get Sheldon from Morris? A first name and a last name!  Thanks. I think that as Christians we should realize that people are very different and that we aren't all going to agree. You can be sure that I won't agree with everything said on this forum, and vise-versa. But what we should expect is that everyone treats the other with love and respect as a brother in Christ. I didn't sense that on CARM, but rather a very different spirit. |
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Post by Once4all on Feb 24, 2010 22:28:18 GMT -5
Amen, Morris.
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Post by stephenpatrick on Feb 24, 2010 22:42:30 GMT -5
Hi Morris, How did you get Sheldon from Morris? A first name and a last name! Thanks. I think that as Christians we should realize that people are very different and that we aren't all going to agree. You can be sure that I won't agree with everything said on this forum, and vise-versa. But what we should expect is that everyone treats the other with love and respect as a brother in Christ. I didn't sense that on CARM, but rather a very different spirit. Hi Morris. Welcome. Most forums can get downright vicious. The first forum that I ever sensed being amongst mature, respectful believers was Steve Gregg's forum. And then this one. They seem to attract, and keep those who want to learn, and help out. There are some pretty nice people here . . . . . . and mellontes too. Steve |
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Post by didymus on Mar 14, 2010 23:24:20 GMT -5
Thanks. I think that as Christians we should realize that people are very different and that we aren't all going to agree. You can be sure that I won't agree with everything said on this forum, and vise-versa. But what we should expect is that everyone treats the other with love and respect as a brother in Christ. I didn't sense that on CARM, but rather a very different spirit. But why is that? Why don't we all agree? I Corinthians 1.10 states, "Now I plead with you brethren, by the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." And Paul wrote a lot about unity. What about being of the same mind. What does that mean? Philippians 2.3-5 states, "Let nothing be done through selfish ambition of conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others. Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus." There is no doubt, if the same mind that is in us is also the mind that was in Christ, we would be thinking the same thing, therefore we should all be speaking the same thing. But, that isn't happening. Why? With so much division in the "church" shoudln't we find the answer to this question. Oh no, something is pulling on me ........  |
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Post by mellontes on Mar 15, 2010 9:43:19 GMT -5
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Post by Morris on Mar 15, 2010 13:23:05 GMT -5
I think that the big delusion is not that everybody thinks they are right in what they believe, but rather insists that they are right. I have read many different interpretations for any given subject and they all insist that the scripture they quote "proves" their beliefs. As far as I'm concerned, there are no "proofs" and I can even prove it!  ;D If these so-called proofs truly existed we'd all (99%) be compelled to believe them simply based on the nature of the proof itself. When someone says to me, "This is the proper interpretation and here are the texts that prove it", and three others can do the same thing from their point of view, the "proofs" aren't exactly proofs are they! This is why I'll discuss interpretation based on how I am personally persuaded to believe (including 'not sure', 'leaning toward', and 'interpret what?'). Btw, I don't think "unity" is found in believing the exact same doctrines. True unity is a matter of attitude and love in the Spirit. We can think the same doctrines and still not be in unity. We can differ on doctrine and still "speak the same thing", "have no divisions", and "be perfectly joined together" IF we "esteem others better than our self" and thus have the mind of Christ in us. If we, as the body (singularly and unified) of Christ, had the passion for people as we do for "thinking doctrinally right", we'd turn the world upside down with our testimony. It isn't that we err in doctrine, it's that we err in character. |
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Post by mellontes on Mar 15, 2010 13:33:21 GMT -5
I think that the big delusion is not that everybody thinks they are right in what they believe, but rather insists that they are right. I have read many different interpretations for any given subject and they all insist that the scripture they quote "proves" their beliefs. As far as I'm concerned, there are no "proofs" and I can even prove it! ;D If these so-called proofs truly existed we'd all (99%) be compelled to believe them simply based on the nature of the proof itself. When someone says to me, "This is the proper interpretation and here are the texts that prove it", and three others can do the same thing from their point of view, the "proofs" aren't exactly proofs are they! This is why I'll discuss interpretation based on how I am personally persuaded to believe (including 'not sure', 'leaning toward', and 'interpret what?'). Btw, I don't think "unity" is found in believing the exact same doctrines. True unity is a matter of attitude and love in the Spirit. We can think the same doctrines and still not be in unity. We can differ on doctrine and still "speak the same thing", "have no divisions", and "be perfectly joined together" IF we "esteem others better than our self" and thus have the mind of Christ in us. If we, as the body (singularly and unified) of Christ, had the passion for people as we do for "thinking doctrinally right", we'd turn the world upside down with our testimony. It isn't that we err in doctrine, it's that we err in character. I guess you didn't click on the link to discover what I was referring to...oh, well. |
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Post by Morris on Mar 15, 2010 15:14:10 GMT -5
I guess you didn't click on the link to discover what I was referring to...oh, well. I did. However, I responded just as much to didymus' post prior to yours as to what you yourself wrote. Perhaps I should have quoted some of his post too. "Honest, open communication and a desire to apologize when necessary" is only a fraction of what is needed. |
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Post by mellontes on Mar 15, 2010 15:42:20 GMT -5
I guess you didn't click on the link to discover what I was referring to...oh, well. I did. However, I responded just as much to didymus' post prior to yours as to what you yourself wrote. Perhaps I should have quoted some of his post too. "Honest, open communication and a desire to apologize when necessary" is only a fraction of what is needed. Ahhhhhhh, crap!!!!! Shoot! Shooooot! Hi Morris, I thought you were Didymous for some reason. I was W-R-O-N-G obviously. Sorry about that, chief....you didn't even have to click on the link... That's what happens when one is in a rapid exchange on other platforms at the same time... |
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Post by Once4all on Mar 15, 2010 16:30:55 GMT -5
... It isn't that we err in doctrine, it's that we err in character. Sheldon, you are a wealth of quotable quotes! I might have to add this one to my signature, as well. |
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Post by Morris on Mar 16, 2010 9:12:44 GMT -5
... It isn't that we err in doctrine, it's that we err in character. Sheldon, you are a wealth of quotable quotes! I might have to add this one to my signature, as well. And I believe it was the CARM forum that taught me that one (if you get what I mean  ; CARM = Childish Arguing / Rude Manners). |
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Post by Morris on Mar 16, 2010 9:21:43 GMT -5
Ahhhhhhh, crap!!!!! Shoot! Shooooot! Hi Morris, I thought you were Didymous for some reason. I was W-R-O-N-G obviously. Sorry about that, chief....you didn't even have to click on the link... That's what happens when one is in a rapid exchange on other platforms at the same time... Oh, no problem mellontes. |
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Post by didymus on Jul 14, 2010 20:07:28 GMT -5
I have just joined CARM. How long will it be till they delete me? Have any words of wisdom regarding CARM? Thanks for your time. Didy  |
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Post by Once4all on Jul 14, 2010 23:38:21 GMT -5
Have any words of wisdom regarding CARM? CARM is infectious in a bad way. It's an ongoing object lesson on the truthfulness of 1 Corinthians 15:33. Be civil and loving in all your replies and you will avoid the wrath of the moderators. When someone insults you or calls you a name, resist the temptation to respond in like manner. Don't let them drag you down to their level of unChrist-like behavior. If a mod gives you a warning, just accept it without arguing back, it'll save you a lot of grief. And never complain to or about the moderators in the forums. Abide by those simple suggestions and you'll be fine! |
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Post by didymus on Jul 15, 2010 2:24:49 GMT -5
Thanks Bev, But, I don't know how long I want to be fine there. So far what I've seen doesn't encourage me. They seem to all have the "I'm right you're wrong," attitude. A splendid example of religious people walking in the flesh. I have yet to encounter anyone that would ever consider that they might be wrong about anything. To me, that gives people more credibility. By the way, how does put a signiture on here? Never mind, I found it.  - Now let's have some tomato juice. |
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Post by Morris on Jul 15, 2010 9:32:29 GMT -5
I've restarted posting there after being absent for about half a year. I have set myself objectives and regulations for posting and if I can't hold to them I'm leaving.
I still think my main thoughts will be shared here though; the spirit here is far more Christ-like.
Oh, and Bev, that is some great advice that I'm praying to hold to.
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Post by didymus on Jul 16, 2010 23:17:21 GMT -5
Well, that didn't take long. How long was it? 2 days. Wow, what an experience. That is the worst example of Christianity I think I ever did see. That place is a war zone. Well, I'm out, I think. - this calls for a celebration - how about some steaming wine. |
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Post by Allyn on Jul 17, 2010 7:03:40 GMT -5
Where had you been posting? Did it get deleted or what took place? Well, that didn't take long. How long was it? 2 days. Wow, what an experience. That is the worst example of Christianity I think I ever did see. That place is a war zone. Well, I'm out, I think. - this calls for a celebration - how about some steaming wine. |
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