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Post by Once4all on Jan 18, 2010 18:38:00 GMT -5
Where does the idea come from in scripture that Jesus loves anyone unconditionally?
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Post by Allyn on Jan 18, 2010 19:01:10 GMT -5
Where does the idea come from in scripture that Jesus loves anyone unconditionally? Nowhere with those exact words, but Since God is love and since the Son exemplifies the Father then we can say He has the same attributes as God. Unconditional love, in my opinion, is not a love without discipline or even letting go. God, I believe, is incapable of not loving all His creation but even so God is a God of laws and principals which demand obedience. |
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Post by Once4all on Jan 18, 2010 19:21:13 GMT -5
Thanks, Allyn. There are so many made-up sayings and traditions that get passed along and eventually assumed without a second thought to if the Scriptures even support it. I think the idea that God (and/or Jesus) loves us (or people in general) unconditionally might be one of them.
I do believe that love is a crucial element for knowing God. But I think that the nature of God's love gets exaggerated for the sake of evangelism.
1 John 4:15-16 NASB
(15) Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
(16) We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
John 15:9-10 NASB
(9) "Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love.
(10) "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
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Post by didymus on Jul 14, 2010 1:25:18 GMT -5
Going back to what was written before I joned here, I found this thread. Very good question, Bev. Uncondition love simply means love without condition. Is God's love unconditional? John 3.16 starts with, "For/because God so loved the world..." What was the condition for God so loving the world that He sent His Son to die on the cross? The words, "so loved," seems to indicate the intensity of the love. Was this intense love conditional? If there is a condition, it would have to be that we are sinners. He so loved us while we yet sinners that He sent His Son to die on the cross for the sins of the world. If He loved us while we were yet sinners, what is the condition for that love? Then after the declaration of God's love for the world, immediatly we are given a condition for salvation, that we believe in Christ. But, without the love of God in sending Christ in the first place, we would not have the opportunity to believe in Christ. In some ways, it appears God's love is unconditional. On the other hand, if God's love is unconditional, then why are there conditions upon salvation? I say this was a good question because it is one I have grappled with myself. As you can see, I have no answers, only questions. But, I believe this question is worthy of discussion. Didy  |
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Post by Once4all on Jul 14, 2010 11:36:15 GMT -5
If we look at just John 3:16, one of the questions that needs to be answered is "What is the world?" Is it the planet? All the people on the planet? Or, as preterist belief would lead to, is the world simply old covenant Israel?
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Post by Morris on Jul 14, 2010 13:06:11 GMT -5
1 Timothy 2:1-7
"Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying—a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth."
1 Timothy 4:10
"For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe."
God loves all men (i.e. mankind) and made a way for all men to know Him. In this sense He is the Savior of all men, not any one group or type. Those who believe, who receive Him as such, are truly saved.
Don't forget about 1 John 4:19
"We love Him because He first loved us.",
or Romans 5:8
"But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
God loves us so much that He is jealous over us. His love for us is first and foremost. But there is also judgment which results from the very character of God and His love.
As for 'unconditional', I would say this has a certain truth when in Christ. My salvation is not dependent on my performance; by which I mean I don't earn it by my labour, and I can fail at times. God is concerned with my heart. However, the condition of my heart will be evident in my behavior (in general).
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Post by mellontes on Jul 14, 2010 14:22:56 GMT -5
If we look at just John 3:16, one of the questions that needs to be answered is "What is the world?" Is it the planet? All the people on the planet? Or, as preterist belief would lead to, is the world simply old covenant Israel? Yes. Jesus was sent to the lost house of Israel. To the Jew first. When Jesus refers to the present age (world) it is referring to OC Judaism. For us to ignore the Jewish influence in this respect and to make everything global, is for us to make a grave mistake. When the apostles speak the transition from Jew to Gentile can be made, but not always. Romans 8 and the "creation" has NOTHING to do with the physical universe, mosquitoes, slugs, dandilions, roses, whales, bacteria, etc. The creation was old covenant Israel (whether you use Genesis 1 or later texts in Genesis. But to determine this you must read Romans in context. All too often, our presups get in the way. This is why I am the new creation in Christ. Notice that I did not say "I am of the new creation in Christ. I am THE NEW CREATION in Christ. I am the "ktisis." |
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Post by MoGrace2U on Jul 15, 2010 13:19:29 GMT -5
I like this passage:
Hosea 14:4 - I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him.
The Hebrew 5071 Nedabah suggests a free will offering or a voluntary gift. God would have been perfectly just to leave us dead in our sins, but instead His plan was to redeem us which comes only by His grace in sending His Son to die for us. I don't particularly care for the term unconditional because the condition we are in is what prompts the condition for which Christ made His offering freely for us. Did He have to die to set us free? Most certainly, but did He have to set us free? No, since there would have been no injustice from God had He not. But a lack of injustice does not mean that righteousness flourishes either, and that was God's will for the world. Without righteousness, no man born in sin would know God - and what glory would He have in His creation? Therefore the condition for our salvation is that we might glorify God which no sinner could ever do.
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Post by Morris on Jul 15, 2010 14:58:25 GMT -5
Therefore the condition for our salvation is that we might glorify God which no sinner could ever do. Great insight, Robin! Luke 17:15-19 " And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, returned, and with a loud voice glorified God, and fell down on his face at His feet, giving Him thanks. And he was a Samaritan. So Jesus answered and said, “Were there not ten cleansed? But where are the nine? Were there not any found who returned to give glory to God except this foreigner?” And He said to him, “Arise, go your way. Your faith has made you well.” " Philippians 4:20 " Now to our God and Father be glory forever and ever. Amen." |
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Post by Once4all on Jul 15, 2010 15:42:34 GMT -5
Therefore the condition for our salvation is that we might glorify God which no sinner could ever do. Great insight, Robin! Luke 17:15-19 " And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, returned, and with a loud voice glorified God, and fell down on his face at His feet, giving Him thanks. And he was a Samaritan. So Jesus answered and said, “Were there not ten cleansed? But where are the nine? Were there not any found who returned to give glory to God except this foreigner?” And He said to him, “Arise, go your way. Your faith has made you well.” " Philippians 4:20 " Now to our God and Father be glory forever and ever. Amen." Agreed! |
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