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Post by Once4all on Dec 3, 2009 23:09:13 GMT -5
I've just started reading this rather long chapter titled, "Dealing with Doctrinal Differences" by Sam Dawson. It's about how Christians should interact with each other when they hold different views on various doctrines. The following paragraph is near the beginning of the chapter, but it struck me as being a very important point, especially for us who believe in a fulfilled eschatology: So how do we deal with brethren we differ with? What is our record? There are over three hundred prophecies about the Messiah (where He would be born, when, the fact He would be born of a virgin, He would perform miracles, teach in parables, be rejected by physical Israel, be crucified, be raised from the dead, etc.). Most realize that if Jesus did not fulfill every one of them, he was an impostor, and not the Christ of God. Similarly, there are many prophecies made about the Messiah's people (Christians), and specifically ones concerning how they are to treat each other in the body of Christ. Do we also realize that if we don't measure up to those prophecies, that is just how far we are from being the Messiah's prophesied people? Can it be that we are impostors? Source: gospelthemes.com/differ.htmOne of those prophecies mentioned is one that Allyn and I talked about in another thread not too long ago, from Isaiah 2:4 - "they will hammer their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, and never again will they learn war." Another one, Isaiah 11.6-10, showed how the people of Messiah's kingdom would get along with each other: "And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, and the leopard will lie down with the kid, and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little boy will lead them. Also the cow and the bear will graze; their young will lie down together; and the lion will eat straw like the ox. And the nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra, and the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den. They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea. Then it will come about in that day that the nations will resort to the root of Jesse, who will stand as a signal for the peoples; and His resting place will be glorious." If we are not fulfilling those prophecies, are we false followers of Christ? Bev |
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Post by stephenpatrick on Dec 4, 2009 10:47:19 GMT -5
Apologies to all here for airing my dirty laundry list when it comes to the dispy's on another thread. While I haven't personally treated the dispy with any disrespect, my heart hasn't been what it should be. On another thread I was demanding that preterist needs to uphold and present the Isaiah 2:4 verse as being fulfilled when it comes to war for the believer, yet I was, inside myself, my heart, bazooka-ing those who I had yearned to be like in my early walk with the Lord, yet now don't quite measure up with my current beliefs. Hypocrites I called them. Well, I'm no better. I have no idea whether these men are saved or not, but I am sorry that I was judging them and, actually in my heart, despising them.
The change from futurist to preterist end-time beliefs has been a rather big battle for me, with life changing decisions that needed to be made.
For me anyways, I need some prayers from my friends here. I honestly have no one else to ask outside of my family for prayer on this important issue.
Thank you.
Steve
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Post by Allyn on Dec 4, 2009 11:28:45 GMT -5
Apologies to all here for airing my dirty laundry list when it comes to the dispy's on another thread. While I haven't personally treated the dispy with any disrespect, my heart hasn't been what it should be. On another thread I was demanding that preterist needs to uphold and present the Isaiah 2:4 verse as being fulfilled when it comes to war for the believer, yet I was, inside myself, my heart, bazooka-ing those who I had yearned to be like in my early walk with the Lord, yet now don't quite measure up with my current beliefs. Hypocrites I called them. Well, I'm no better. I have no idea whether these men are saved or not, but I am sorry that I was judging them and, actually in my heart, despising them. The change from futurist to preterist end-time beliefs has been a rather big battle for me, with life changing decisions that needed to be made. For me anyways, I need some prayers from my friends here. I honestly have no one else to ask outside of my family for prayer on this important issue. Thank you. Steve Take care brother as I for one will pray for you. If you ever wish to call me I will gladly give you my cell phone number. |
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Post by MoGrace2U on Dec 4, 2009 12:26:52 GMT -5
Hi Stephen
I think we all have crossed that line in this journey. But as Bev points out, when we realize the hypocrisy of it, then repentance can come. It is easy for our flesh to get riled when we become zealous for the truth and meet up with those who have no ears to hear it. But would we treat an unbeliever in the same manner we have treated those who share our same hope in Christ's glory? Babies can be very disagreeable at times when they are in need of food - why should we chastise them because they don't like peas? When if we just try a little sugar they will eat them gladly!
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Post by Once4all on Dec 4, 2009 14:10:43 GMT -5
Steve, your post moved my heart to pray for you immediately, and I have. And that's right, it was you also who was involved in the brief discussion about Isaiah 2:4. In fact, you may have been the one to start it! Apologies for my faulty memory.
Robin, loved your analogy with the peas and sugar. I don't care for peas myself and have never thought of putting sugar on them to make them more palatable. I usually smother them in pepper to mask the flavor. LOL. I'll try "a spoonful of sugar" next time!
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Post by mellontes on Dec 4, 2009 14:28:46 GMT -5
Hi Stephen I think we all have crossed that line in this journey. But as Bev points out, when we realize the hypocrisy of it, then repentance can come. It is easy for our flesh to get riled when we become zealous for the truth and meet up with those who have no ears to hear it. But would we treat an unbeliever in the same manner we have treated those who share our same hope in Christ's glory? Babies can be very disagreeable at times when they are in need of food - why should we chastise them because they don't like peas? When if we just try a little sugar they will eat them gladly! You don't know my wife!!!! She spots and removes every single pea from soups, stews, salads, or wherever. It has been rumored that she can spot a pea in an spinach patch from three hundred yards away! |
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Post by mellontes on Dec 4, 2009 14:40:59 GMT -5
I've just started reading this rather long chapter titled, "Dealing with Doctrinal Differences" by Sam Dawson. It's about how Christians should interact with each other when they hold different views on various doctrines. The following paragraph is near the beginning of the chapter, but it struck me as being a very important point, especially for us who believe in a fulfilled eschatology: So how do we deal with brethren we differ with? What is our record? There are over three hundred prophecies about the Messiah (where He would be born, when, the fact He would be born of a virgin, He would perform miracles, teach in parables, be rejected by physical Israel, be crucified, be raised from the dead, etc.). Most realize that if Jesus did not fulfill every one of them, he was an impostor, and not the Christ of God. Similarly, there are many prophecies made about the Messiah's people (Christians), and specifically ones concerning how they are to treat each other in the body of Christ. Do we also realize that if we don't measure up to those prophecies, that is just how far we are from being the Messiah's prophesied people? Can it be that we are impostors? Source: gospelthemes.com/differ.htmOne of those prophecies mentioned is one that Allyn and I talked about in another thread not too long ago, from Isaiah 2:4 - "they will hammer their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, and never again will they learn war." Another one, Isaiah 11.6-10, showed how the people of Messiah's kingdom would get along with each other: "And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, and the leopard will lie down with the kid, and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little boy will lead them. Also the cow and the bear will graze; their young will lie down together; and the lion will eat straw like the ox. And the nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra, and the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den. They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea. Then it will come about in that day that the nations will resort to the root of Jesse, who will stand as a signal for the peoples; and His resting place will be glorious." If we are not fulfilling those prophecies, are we false followers of Christ? Bev Bev, there is no doubt in my mind that I fail consistently in this regard. I would rather strangle PaulT than invite him in for coffee. Whether or not that would be true if indeed he did knock on my door, I do not know. Maybe I would just bruise him...without an assault charge. But point is well-taken... I you will permit my thoughts on those two passages of Scripture. Yep, here I go inserting my opinion when not asked. I would surmise that those nations are not referring to our present-day nations, but the different nations within Israel. I think the NT bears this as well. Perhaps the introduction from 1 Peter 1:1 speaks regarding some of these nations as does Pentecost (Acts 2:5) And regarding Isaiah 11:6-10, I don't know if "getting along" would be the right terminology. I would say it more refers to the clean (Jews) and unclean (Gentiles) becoming part of the same body (Romans 15:9-12). Paul had just gone to great lengths about the friction that was happening between the Christian Jews and Christian Gentiles. I think he was using the Isaih passage to say "Look, get along people! God had preordained the inclusion of the Gentiles into the inheritance, so get your act together." I find it amazing that those dispie freaks, oops! I meant my loving dispensational friends in Christ, believe that these are real animals being returned to their utopian bliss before the fall! |
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Post by Once4all on Dec 4, 2009 15:06:11 GMT -5
I you will permit my thoughts on those two passages of Scripture. Yep, here I go inserting my opinion when not asked. ... Ted, that's what discussion boards are for! If we all felt that we could not share our opinions until asked, it would be deathly quiet around here! I find it amazing that those dispie freaks, oops! I meant my loving dispensational friends in Christ, believe that these are real animals being returned to their utopian bliss before the fall! LOL! Yes, I used to believe that, too. And somewhere deep, deep down I may still hold on to something like that, being the animal lover I've been my whole life. But I don't see it as being an earthly reality. I did not intentionally skip over the meat of your post, I just don't have time right this minute to look up the scriptures and comment. And this website has been responding very slowly for me today. Anyone else having that problem? Bev |
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Post by Once4all on Dec 4, 2009 15:49:10 GMT -5
... And regarding Isaiah 11:6-10, I don't know if "getting along" would be the right terminology. I would say it more refers to the clean (Jews) and unclean (Gentiles) becoming part of the same body (Romans 15:9-12). Paul had just gone to great lengths about the friction that was happening between the Christian Jews and Christian Gentiles. I think he was using the Isaih passage to say "Look, get along people! God had preordained the inclusion of the Gentiles into the inheritance, so get your act together." Isaiah 11:9 actually ties that passage from Isaiah 11 in with Isaiah 2:4 - (Isaiah 11:9 NASB) They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD As the waters cover the sea. (Isaiah 2:4b NASB) Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they learn war. Even if they are speaking of the nations of Israel, would that not include all who are grafted in, as well? Bev |
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Post by mellontes on Dec 4, 2009 17:59:50 GMT -5
... And regarding Isaiah 11:6-10, I don't know if "getting along" would be the right terminology. I would say it more refers to the clean (Jews) and unclean (Gentiles) becoming part of the same body (Romans 15:9-12). Paul had just gone to great lengths about the friction that was happening between the Christian Jews and Christian Gentiles. I think he was using the Isaih passage to say "Look, get along people! God had preordained the inclusion of the Gentiles into the inheritance, so get your act together." Isaiah 11:9 actually ties that passage from Isaiah 11 in with Isaiah 2:4 - (Isaiah 11:9 NASB) They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD As the waters cover the sea. (Isaiah 2:4b NASB) Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they learn war. Even if they are speaking of the nations of Israel, would that not include all who are grafted in, as well? Bev Don't know...It might just be figurative for the gospel of peace, or sumpin like dat... I am sure Paul got physically hurt in, on or near the holy mountain...he was stoned, shipwrecked, ad infinitum. It can't be referring to physical things IMHO. |
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Post by stephenpatrick on Dec 4, 2009 19:20:18 GMT -5
I would surmise that those nations are not referring to our present-day nations, but the different nations within Israel. I think the NT bears this as well. Perhaps the introduction from 1 Peter 1:1 speaks regarding some of these nations as does Pentecost (Acts 2:5)[/quote] Interesting, I've never looked at it that way. But, . . . with Israel, doesn't the Bible always describe them as the tribes of Israel, not nations? And didn't Jesus' sacrifice spell the defeat of the demonic wall around the 70 nations outside of Israel, so "the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea." Wasn't the binding of Satan, to allow the gospel to go to the gentile nations. To me it seems that the fulfillment is worldwide, not local, just pertaining to the land (Israel) I do agree it pertains to just believers though. (maybe I've misunderstood you on this one) Just some thoughts . . . Isaiah 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord As the waters cover the seaIt says they shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain. What does "My holy mountain mean and is it a geographical location, or the entire world? Isaiah 2:4 says He shall judge between the nations, And rebuke many people.That cannot mean Israel. Whenever it says nations it has to mean those nations outside the Lord's portion, Israel. Doesn't it? Thanks Steve |
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Post by Once4all on Dec 4, 2009 20:25:27 GMT -5
Isaiah 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord As the waters cover the seaIt says they shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain. What does "My holy mountain mean and is it a geographical location, or the entire world? Isaiah 2:4 says He shall judge between the nations, And rebuke many people.That cannot mean Israel. Whenever it says nations it has to mean those nations outside the Lord's portion, Israel. Doesn't it? Thanks Steve I think "My holy mountain" refers to the New Jerusalem, which we know is not geographical. But I don't believe it is the "entire world" either. It previously referred to the geographic Jerusalem, and specifically the temple. "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob" (Isaiah 2:3) Also, the end of 2:3 is a parallelism where law and word refer to the same thing, as does Zion and Jerusalem. Bev |
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Post by mellontes on Dec 4, 2009 21:44:22 GMT -5
But, . . . with Israel, doesn't the Bible always describe them as the tribes of Israel, not nations? Wasn't the binding of Satan, to allow the gospel to go to the gentile nations. To me it seems that the fulfillment is worldwide, not local, just pertaining to the land (Israel) I do agree it pertains to just believers though. (maybe I've misunderstood you on this one) Thanks Steve 2 Samuel 7:2323 And what one nation in the earth is like thy people, even like Israel, whom God went to redeem for a people to himself, and to make him a name, and to do for you great things and terrible, for thy land, before thy people, which thou redeemedst to thee from Egypt, from the nations and their gods? Both kinds of nations above... Isaiah 1:1-41 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah. 2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me. 3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider. 4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward. Jeremiah 31:36 - If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. Ezekiel 2:3 - And he said unto me, Son of man, I send thee to the children of Israel, to a rebellious nation that hath rebelled against me: they and their fathers have transgressed against me, even unto this very day. Ezekiel 37:22 - And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: Probably a lot more in the above verse than we realize... And didn't Jesus' sacrifice spell the defeat of the demonic wall around the 70 nations outside of Israel, so "the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea." You lost me there. Do you have a particular passage of Scripture? |
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Post by stephenpatrick on Dec 4, 2009 23:20:16 GMT -5
Hi Ted.
I agree with you. Israel is a nation.
But, you wrote, I would surmise that those nations are not referring to our present-day nations, but the different nations within Israel
I probably should have asked, "What are those nations within Israel?" Weren't they always tribes? Unless you mean Israel to mean Rom 9:6 For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel. Am I confusing you? Or are we on the same page.
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I wrote: And didn't Jesus' sacrifice spell the defeat of the demonic wall around the 70 nations outside of Israel, so "the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea."
You wrote:
You lost me there. Do you have a particular passage of Scripture?
Sorry, didn't mean to and I hope not to lose you again with my answer.
I believe that the "table of Nations" mentioned in Genesis 10 lists the nations that were separate from the nation of Israel.
Dueteronmy 32:8-9
When the Most High apportioned the nations,when he divided humankind, he fixed the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the gods; the Lord’s own portion was his people, Jacob his allotted share.
Through a pretty good study from Michael Heiser, he points out that Israel was given the privilege of worshipping the one true God. The other nations were not because of constant rebellion and worship of other gods.
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Post by stephenpatrick on Dec 5, 2009 1:22:48 GMT -5
Hi Ted. How are you? The second answer to my last post really doesn't do justice for the point I am trying to make. Rather than write it down, which would take me a real long time, I'll just point you to www.michaelsheiser.com/If you are interested it is his study on the Divine Council. I was involved with this for around 2 years, right before I was directed to Steve Gregg's site. And then Allyn's for preterism. Heiser demands the same as the preterist, "What does the text say to the people in that day. And you said something that made this pop into my mind. And at least from my studies with Heiser it did. I certainly didn't mean derail what anyone said previously. Blessings Steve |
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Post by mellontes on Dec 5, 2009 10:13:20 GMT -5
Hi Ted. How are you? The second answer to my last post really doesn't do justice for the point I am trying to make. Rather than write it down, which would take me a real long time, I'll just point you to www.michaelsheiser.com/If you are interested it is his study on the Divine Council. I was involved with this for around 2 years, right before I was directed to Steve Gregg's site. And then Allyn's for preterism. Heiser demands the same as the preterist, "What does the text say to the people in that day. And you said something that made this pop into my mind. And at least from my studies with Heiser it did. I certainly didn't mean derail what anyone said previously. Blessings Steve You are too apologetic. I generally don't take offence when another fellow preterist says anything. You are quite right about my "nation" posting. It was late and after shutting everything down last night, I knew I had made a mistake in trying to differentiate between the nations WITHIN Israel. I guess I shall just have to stick with my two NT passages, although there were 2 nations - Israel and Judah. Perhaps there is further meaning between those two... Can you narrow down that site to a specific article, especially as it pertains to your quote regarding the following: " And didn't Jesus' sacrifice spell the defeat of the demonic wall around the 70 nations outside of Israel," Sorry, I am not much help...perhaps I should stick to humour...but then again no one is raving about that either...I know...I'll just focus in on my beautiful 4 stars.... |
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Post by stephenpatrick on Dec 5, 2009 11:09:43 GMT -5
I wrote: "And didn't Jesus' sacrifice spell the defeat of the demonic wall around the 70 nations outside of Israel,"
Probably a bad metaphor to describe the satanic control of the nations of the world (demonic wall is obviously my words, not scripture) before the cross.
To better explain what I believe concerning that comment, I've sent you a PDF in your email of one of the chapters from Heiser's book (hasn't been published yet) that should help you understand what I meant.
If anyone would like a copy of this chapter to help, just PM me your email address.
Thanks.
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Post by MoGrace2U on Dec 5, 2009 12:49:23 GMT -5
That passage in Isa 11:6-10 is interesting in the groups it gives us:
Wolf, leopard, bear and lion - the adversaries of Israel who were the rod God used for punishment.
Lamb, kid, calf, cow - sacrificial animals Israel offered to God for atonement for sins.
This passage occurs after speaking about how God uses the rod of the nations to turn a remnant of the people back to Himself, and then sends another rod against the rod that boasts as if this was of its own power.
Reducing both groups to a remnant is when their numbers are so few that a little child can lead them. And this will be in the day when the asp's (a twisting snake) den has been vacated and the c_ockatrice's (a hissing snake) lair is emptied. See Isa 65:25 for when dust is the serpent's meat. At which time both the former predators and their prey will eat the same food.
The other beasts as Gentile nations we find in prophecy easily enough, but the wolf analogy is one that is also applied to Israel's leadership - princes, prophets & priests, whom God appointed as judges over Israel.
Ezek 22:27 - Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain.
Zep 3:3 - Her princes within her are roaring lions; her judges are evening wolves; they gnaw not the bones till the morrow.
Mat 7:15 - Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
And that also follows on what Isaiah says about the corrupt leadship of Israel that was to bring the Assyrians down upon them. But as we go on to see the coming of the Root of Jesse as being that day in which the remnant of the dispersed of Israel is gathered and also those who fled Jerusalem - which will be the 2nd time He gathers them - that time is when a New Jerusalem comes into being.
What I see here in ch. 9-12 is a development and a transition from an earthly scene to a heavenly one as Jews and Gentiles are gathered by the gospel and a highway is opened up like the Red Sea was for a new Exodus to bring the remnant into their inheritance. Notice too that those gathered in the earth declare the glory of the Lord for what He has done!
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Post by mellontes on Dec 5, 2009 22:45:48 GMT -5
That passage in Isa 11:6-10 is interesting in the groups it gives us: Wolf, leopard, bear and lion - the adversaries of Israel who were the rod God used for punishment. Lamb, kid, calf, cow - sacrificial animals Israel offered to God for atonement for sins. This passage occurs after speaking about how God uses the rod of the nations to turn a remnant of the people back to Himself, and then sends another rod against the rod that boasts as if this was of its own power. Reducing both groups to a remnant is when their numbers are so few that a little child can lead them. And this will be in the day when the asp's (a twisting snake) den has been vacated and the c_ockatrice's (a hissing snake) lair is emptied. See Isa 65:25 for when dust is the serpent's meat. At which time both the former predators and their prey will eat the same food. The other beasts as Gentile nations we find in prophecy easily enough, but the wolf analogy is one that is also applied to Israel's leadership - princes, prophets & priests, whom God appointed as judges over Israel. Ezek 22:27 - Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain. Zep 3:3 - Her princes within her are roaring lions; her judges are evening wolves; they gnaw not the bones till the morrow. Mat 7:15 - Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. And that also follows on what Isaiah says about the corrupt leadship of Israel that was to bring the Assyrians down upon them. But as we go on to see the coming of the Root of Jesse as being that day in which the remnant of the dispersed of Israel is gathered and also those who fled Jerusalem - which will be the 2nd time He gathers them - that time is when a New Jerusalem comes into being. What I see here in ch. 9-12 is a development and a transition from an earthly scene to a heavenly one as Jews and Gentiles are gathered by the gospel and a highway is opened up like the Red Sea was for a new Exodus to bring the remnant into their inheritance. Notice too that those gathered in the earth declare the glory of the Lord for what He has done! How does Romans 15:12 fit with what you said? I'm not sure I am following you totally... When you said "Reducing both groups to a remnant is when their numbers are so few that a little child can lead them" I got lost...I am curious as to how you come to this conclusion. I thought the "rod" was Jesus Christ (perhaps this is what you are saying too... (Isaiah 11:1-5). And the next four verses describes this Gospel of peace. I don't see how it refers to the wolves and lions; it would seem that these would be the types who would reject the Messiah... Just some thoughts... |
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Post by Allyn on Dec 5, 2009 23:46:44 GMT -5
And a little child shall lead them.
Jesus made that statement also in Matthew 18:1-4
1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” 2 Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, 3 and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Then back to Isaiah 11:8-9;
8 The nursing child shall play by the cobra’s hole, And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper’s den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD...
These poisonous snakes could refer to demons or to the devil which is commonly in Scripture referred to as a serpent or a dragon? If I say that, then what we see is the most vulnerable of God's people, the little children themselves have authority over the serpent. [The] child shall play by the cobra’s hole,
And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper’s den.
Look at Luke chapter 10:17 Here is where Jesus says to the 70:
17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.”
18 And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
When Jesus said, " and nothing shall by any means hurt you." I hear an echo of Isaiah saying: 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain.
I think Jesus is referring back to this passage saying; "You little children, I have given you authority over the serpents. Nothing shall hurt you, they shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain".
1 John 4, talking about the spirit of the antichrist, then says in verse 4:
4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.
This is about the spirit of the antichrist - the demonic powers that seek to keep people in darkness - and little children have overcome these.
Is. 11:8 The nursing child shall play by the cobra’s hole, And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper’s den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD...
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Post by Once4all on Dec 6, 2009 9:46:23 GMT -5
Allyn, to your grouping of scriptures, we can add the following:
Mark 16:17-18 NASB
(17) "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;
(18) they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
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Post by mellontes on Dec 6, 2009 14:34:27 GMT -5
When Jesus said, " and nothing shall by any means hurt you." I hear an echo of Isaiah saying: 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain. I can hear the echo too... |
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