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Post by bryan729 on Dec 2, 2009 16:08:14 GMT -5
A lot of folks are guilty of badmouthing preterism, I use to be guilty myself. Now, how many lives has dispensationalism messed up? How many folks have walked away from church altogether because of this doctrine? They say Jesus could come today, tonight or tomorrow. How many of the elderly have been bilked out of their savings, because Jesus could come at any time, and they were encourged to give all their money to the church? How many folks have missed out on the blessings of parenthood, because the Great Tribulation was supposed to be upon us, and they were afraid to bring babies into the world? How many agnostics and people of other religions have we failed to gain because they see and understand the bible better than the futurists, and now think Jesus and his apostles were false prophets? How in the world is this suppose to be HOPE?
Do I need to bring up all the doomsday cults that have risen up because of futurism? Have you started to stockpile your food and perishable goods yet? How about all the lives that were lost for nothing? How about all the dispensational authors that have made millions of dollars off their books, videos, and tapes, and later have to revise them because their predictions didn't come to pass? Does that show you that speculation and sensationalism sells? You see stuff like that in the tabloids at the supermarket, and the National Enquirer. It looks to me like futurism is the real poison of Christianity.
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Post by Allyn on Dec 2, 2009 16:13:41 GMT -5
A lot of folks are guilty of badmouthing preterism, I use to be guilty myself. Now, how many lives has dispensationalism messed up? How many folks have walked away from church altogether because of this doctrine? They say Jesus could come today, tonight or tomorrow. How many of the elderly have been bilked out of their savings, because Jesus could come at any time, and they were encourged to give all their money to the church? How many folks have missed out on the blessings of parenthood, because the Great Tribulation was supposed to be upon us, and they were afraid to bring babies into the world? How many agnostics and people of other religions have we failed to gain because they see and understand the bible better than the futurists, and now think Jesus and his apostles were false prophets? How in the world is this suppose to be HOPE? Do I need to bring up all the doomsday cults that have risen up because of futurism? Have you started to stockpile your food and perishable goods yet? How about all the lives that were lost for nothing? How about all the dispensational authors that have made millions of dollars off their books, videos, and tapes, and later have to revise them because their predictions didn't come to pass? Does that show you that speculation and sensationalism sells? You see stuff like that in the tabloids at the supermarket, and the National Enquirer. It looks to me like futurism is the real poison of Christianity. Hi Bryan, I cannot disagree with you. In fact I resembled some of those examples you gave. The moving into preterism was a scary thing for me but it was almost out of my control to some degree. But once I finally said that I must believe Jesus at all costs then the freedom in that poured over me. I appreciated your post. |
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Post by mellontes on Dec 2, 2009 17:53:11 GMT -5
A lot of folks are guilty of badmouthing preterism, I use to be guilty myself. Now, how many lives has dispensationalism messed up? How many folks have walked away from church altogether because of this doctrine? They say Jesus could come today, tonight or tomorrow. How many of the elderly have been bilked out of their savings, because Jesus could come at any time, and they were encourged to give all their money to the church? How many folks have missed out on the blessings of parenthood, because the Great Tribulation was supposed to be upon us, and they were afraid to bring babies into the world? How many agnostics and people of other religions have we failed to gain because they see and understand the bible better than the futurists, and now think Jesus and his apostles were false prophets? How in the world is this suppose to be HOPE? Do I need to bring up all the doomsday cults that have risen up because of futurism? Have you started to stockpile your food and perishable goods yet? How about all the lives that were lost for nothing? How about all the dispensational authors that have made millions of dollars off their books, videos, and tapes, and later have to revise them because their predictions didn't come to pass? Does that show you that speculation and sensationalism sells? You see stuff like that in the tabloids at the supermarket, and the National Enquirer. It looks to me like futurism is the real poison of Christianity. Jeremiah 5:30 is so applicable to today... |
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Post by Once4all on Dec 2, 2009 18:42:59 GMT -5
A lot of folks are guilty of badmouthing preterism, I use to be guilty myself. Now, how many lives has dispensationalism messed up? ... Leave it to me to rain on the parade. When I saw the thread title and started reading the first post, I thought that the "real poison of Christianity" was going to be identified as badmouthing the beliefs of those who disagree with us, whatever the belief. Instead, I see that all that was done was an exchange of targets.  Bev |
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Post by Allyn on Dec 2, 2009 18:52:16 GMT -5
A lot of folks are guilty of badmouthing preterism, I use to be guilty myself. Now, how many lives has dispensationalism messed up? ... Leave it to me to rain on the parade. When I saw the thread title and started reading the first post, I thought that the "real poison of Christianity" was going to be identified as badmouthing the beliefs of those who disagree with us, whatever the belief. Instead, I see that all that was done was an exchange of targets. Bev The best writings of men are long and full of content. The best quotes are short and to the point. I think we have seen both.   |
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Post by stephenpatrick on Dec 2, 2009 19:08:04 GMT -5
A lot of folks are guilty of badmouthing preterism, I use to be guilty myself. Now, how many lives has dispensationalism messed up? How many folks have walked away from church altogether because of this doctrine? They say Jesus could come today, tonight or tomorrow. How many of the elderly have been bilked out of their savings, because Jesus could come at any time, and they were encourged to give all their money to the church? How many folks have missed out on the blessings of parenthood, because the Great Tribulation was supposed to be upon us, and they were afraid to bring babies into the world? How many agnostics and people of other religions have we failed to gain because they see and understand the bible better than the futurists, and now think Jesus and his apostles were false prophets? How in the world is this suppose to be HOPE? Do I need to bring up all the doomsday cults that have risen up because of futurism? Have you started to stockpile your food and perishable goods yet? How about all the lives that were lost for nothing? How about all the dispensational authors that have made millions of dollars off their books, videos, and tapes, and later have to revise them because their predictions didn't come to pass? Does that show you that speculation and sensationalism sells? You see stuff like that in the tabloids at the supermarket, and the National Enquirer. It looks to me like futurism is the real poison of Christianity. Ditto! I never could understand those in our previous church had the biggest houses, vacations 6 times a year and on and on, yet held to the "very soon" return of Jesus. As if He was going to come and pick them up while out on the yacht. Never made sense to me then. Why didn't I see just how wrong it was. My wife and I gave all and served all. Yet the loudest proponents of futurism lived pretty darn good. We swallowed it whole. |
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Post by stephenpatrick on Dec 2, 2009 19:30:25 GMT -5
A lot of folks are guilty of badmouthing preterism, I use to be guilty myself. Now, how many lives has dispensationalism messed up? ... Leave it to me to rain on the parade. When I saw the thread title and started reading the first post, I thought that the "real poison of Christianity" was going to be identified as badmouthing the beliefs of those who disagree with us, whatever the belief. Instead, I see that all that was done was an exchange of targets. Bev After my last post I read this one from Bev. And guess what Bev. You're right. But right now, and I know this sounds bad, but I dispise the dispy and their doctrines of the future. I look back to my beginnings of Christianity and kick myself for not listening to that little small voice telling me something that the words soon, at hand, last hour, mean something more than I've heard before. Instead I went to the prophecy pro Hal Lindsey to tell me what it all means instead. This stuff is in my face daily and all over the radio 24/7. 2 weeks ago a young man at our church killed himself and my pastor quoted a verse from Isaiah 57:1-2 The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come. He shall enter into peace: they shall rest in their beds, each one walking in his uprightness. He then proceeded to talk about the end times. I couldn't believe it. He takes a verse concerning the coming 1st captivity and applies it to a suicide, but also it was orchestrated by God so he might not have to live in the evil times ahead of us because of the signs of the times. Someday I hope this is removed from me but right now I do admit that I am bitter and do not like to be around these hypocrites. (amazing huh? They're hypocrites because none of them live their futurist doctrine and I'm a hypocrite because I dislike them, not following the words of Jesus to forgive them) I'm trying. I really am. Steve |
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Post by bryan729 on Dec 2, 2009 20:41:08 GMT -5
Thank you everyone for your comments. That post was from the heart after seeing preterism attacked again and again by those that really don't know or understand what we believe. Allyn, I can relate on the fear factor of the paradigm shift to preterism. I was a futurist for over 20 years, and when I started to embrace fulfilled eschatology, I too was scared. Being indoctrinated for so long with futurism, I guess I shouldn't have been surprised. But the more I read my Bible and prayed, and paying close attention to time statements and audience relevance, I could not deny what I was seeing with my own eyes.
Like Steve said, the phrases we've read so often without giving them much attention, like "soon", "last hour", and "at hand" can not be disreguarded. We need to remember we're reading someone else's mail. I believe that article I read awhile back, God's Word is "for us" but it wasn't "to us". I didn't attend the church at Corinth, Ephesus, or the church of the Thessalonians. I guess that is what really helped me make the adjustments, and communication with those of the common faith. God Bless.
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Post by Once4all on Dec 2, 2009 21:40:37 GMT -5
Steve, I don't think it is wrong to despise a doctrine that you believe is wrong and detrimental to someone's faith. I feel the same way about doctrines that I don't believe in, whether one's I previously believed and moved on from, or ones I've never believed. Similar to that oft-quoted adage about hating the sin and loving the sinner, we can despise the doctrine and even argue against it without treating the person holding the doctrine with contempt. And that should hold true whether those persons are within earshot or not.
And I can readily attest that it is not always easy!
Bev
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