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Post by stephenpatrick on Nov 8, 2009 9:20:24 GMT -5
Good morning everyone. This morning I got up and went to a site called preterismdebate.ning.com/mellontes wroteYes. Covenant eschatology is an eon away from dispensationalism. I went from being a classic dispensationalist to a full preterist in less than two months. The volume of reading in that 2-month period was tantamount to my own height in literature with almost equal portions of the Bible. It literally almost killed me. My wife knew that I had become an emotional basket case. I don't know why I keep the hope that this acquaintance (once a friend) will ever turn from his rigidity - at least not if he has to go through what I did...[/size][/i] Mine probably took a few months longer, but the mountain of papers, Bible, and non-stop reading left me in the same state. I was a wreck. The more I read, 3 things happened. I got ticked off . . . not only at myself for not listening to that small voice in the back of my head that always had problems with the 'near' time statements in the Bible and never did any study to understand them better, but relied on previous writers to give me their understanding of what it means. I got ticked off at the dispy's for deceiving me, for taking a new, fresh gullible believer and using fear and guilt to support their theology. And for now calling me a heretic for actually believing the bible. And I became upset with God. "Why oh why did you not protect me from this end-times stuff?" I poured my entire first 25 years of Christianity into this "false hope." The past few years, starting with Steve Greg's teachings on Israel and reading pretty much everything I can find written at every preterist site has been an emotional and intellectual bunge jump. That to me is one of the biggest reasons most Christians will not go that route. To admit you've been wrong your entire life on the most profound biblical truths . . . that Jesus fulfilled everything, "everything" written by the prophets, defeated Satan's control over the nations and is reigning in those nations right now. |
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Post by Once4all on Nov 8, 2009 10:25:08 GMT -5
. . . that Jesus fulfilled everything, "everything" written by the prophets, defeated Satan's control over the nations and is reigning in those nations right now. Good morning, Steve. Yes, that last little bit seems to be a stumbling block for many. Christ is reigning IN the nations (in the people of all nations who follow him). They can't seem to move their perception from external and physical to internal and spiritual. As for changing one's paradigm, the process may be similar for all of us. When we first hear of a truth so radical from our own belief, we initially push it aside, ignoring the small voice or little flicker of light. Eventually, if we don't extinguish it by shutting ourselves off from it completely, the flicker will fan into a flame. Even though we still may not have embraced it as truth, we begin to read whatever we can get our hands on about it. At first, we tell ourselves that we're studying it to disprove it, but deep down we know we're giving it this much attention because we realize that there is something to it - that flicker of truth. If we get to the point where we are studying something almost obsessively, it's more likely because we already believe it and have simply not yet acknowledged it. I believe that the majority of those who strongly, and often with much anger, oppose a view are those who haven't really taken the time to investigate or understand the opposing view. Those who HAVE studied both sides can usually debate more calmly because they are confident in what they believe. When the opposition is a mystery hiding in the shadows, we react irrationally and violently when it leaps into view. But when we know our opposition, we can greet it calmly and interact with it rationally. Bev |
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Post by MoGrace2U on Nov 8, 2009 13:56:39 GMT -5
Hi Stephen,
Have you ever noticed that when reading your imagination gets triggered and you find your focus drifting to that and away from the text? This is what dispensationalism used to do to me. Which perhaps is nothing wrong in that in and of itself, unless it is your 'vision' that begins dictating what the text is saying to you. Because that is how it becomes speculation.
On the other hand since trying to overcome that tendency once I realized I had been doing that, I find now the word of God is guiding me and it brings me the confirmation I need and keeps me grounded in the text itself. And those flights of fancy rarely happen any more because the text itself has become so interesting and holds my attention!
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Post by mellontes on Nov 8, 2009 20:44:44 GMT -5
Hi Stephen, Have you ever noticed that when reading your imagination gets triggered and you find your focus drifting to that and away from the text? This is what dispensationalism used to do to me. Which perhaps is nothing wrong in that in and of itself, unless it is your 'vision' that begins dictating what the text is saying to you. Because that is how it becomes speculation. On the other hand since trying to overcome that tendency once I realized I had been doing that, I find now the word of God is guiding me and it brings me the confirmation I need and keeps me grounded in the text itself. And those flights of fancy rarely happen any more because the text itself has become so interesting and holds my attention! Mograce, Attention getting is definitely true! I no longer have to glimpse through entire sections believing that I was not mature enough in the faith to understand - someday it would make sense once I had been illuminated further on other passages. Trouble is, those times did not come. Bible reading became a chore and was hit and miss. But not any more!!! Today I understood Ephesians 5:30-32 for the very first time. Ephesians 5:30-32 - For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.Having not been a covenant theologian before, there was no chance I could ever understand this verse - especially as a dispensationalist. But now I see the "mother and father" as either the old covenant economy or Adam and Eve and our joining the wife - the bride - the body of Christ - becoming one body, one flesh in Christ. It is in the context of the covenants! Ephesians 5:6-8 - Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them. 8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: This previous context seems to be contrasting Paul's audience with who they once were and addressing the Jews as the children of disobedience and runs parallel with 2 Thessalonians 2:6.. 1 Thessalonians 2:15-16 - Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: 16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost. Isn't life grand! |
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Post by MoGrace2U on Nov 9, 2009 0:35:38 GMT -5
Hi Ted,
You do know that to cease being a dispensationalist does not mean one has to turn to covenant theology either? You can just be a biblicist and be happy!
I suspect by mentioning mother and father you are referring to the passage in Gen 2:24?
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Post by mellontes on Nov 9, 2009 9:08:12 GMT -5
Hi Ted, You do know that to cease being a dispensationalist does not mean one has to turn to covenant theology either? You can just be a biblicist and be happy! I suspect by mentioning mother and father you are referring to the passage in Gen 2:24? If the biblicist believes in covenant theology.... |
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Post by kazwhite on Nov 15, 2009 19:03:47 GMT -5
When I went from dispy to Full Preterism, I was angry with "them", the I was sorry for them. I truly believe that God wanted me to see close up and personal what He was taking me away from in order that I should stay away from it for good. God blessed me in those days, but now I feel I have a much freer, personal and happier relationship with Him. I do not feel like I am about to get whacked with a big stick for stepping out of "line" (heretic bitch)!
The thing I miss most about being a dispy, if you could call it that is I have absolutely no one to fellowship with except what I can gather from the groups I am in online. This Forum, yahoo group and Planet Preterist. Which isn't really fellowship, just drawing what I can really.
It will always be an ongoing study with me. The dispies gave me a deep love for the Bible, for which I will ever be grateful to them for. I always felt like an outsider looking in: now I am an insider looking at them and wanting to weep for their ignorance.
Covenant Theology is a good place to start, but don't jump from one prison cell to another, get out and explore. Learn your Bible, learn it, love it and love God and build your relationship with Him. Always move forward. And do not forget those who are prisoners for God.
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Post by Allyn on Nov 15, 2009 19:10:30 GMT -5
When I went from dispy to Full Preterism, I was angry with "them", the I was sorry for them. I truly believe that God wanted me to see close up and personal what He was taking me away from in order that I should stay away from it for good. God blessed me in those days, but now I feel I have a much freer, personal and happier relationship with Him. I do not feel like I am about to get whacked with a big stick for stepping out of "line" (heretic pregnant dog)! The thing I miss most about being a dispy, if you could call it that is I have absolutely no one to fellowship with except what I can gather from the groups I am in online. This Forum, yahoo group and Planet Preterist. Which isn't really fellowship, just drawing what I can really. It will always be an ongoing study with me. The dispies gave me a deep love for the Bible, for which I will ever be grateful to them for. I always felt like an outsider looking in: now I am an insider looking at them and wanting to weep for their ignorance. Covenant Theology is a good place to start, but don't jump from one prison cell to another, get out and explore. Learn your Bible, learn it, love it and love God and build your relationship with Him. Always move forward. And do not forget those who are prisoners for God. Thank you for this posting from the heart. I know many can relate to what you have said. I do believe there is hope for us right now because I believe that there are people who are not preterists who still love the command to walk the walk of Christ and love unconditionally. It takes effort to find these people and a heart of love from us as well. Try searching by being first a friend and then a teacher if God allows it. Fellowship is a gift from God. |
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Post by Sower on Nov 18, 2009 18:55:26 GMT -5
Hi Kazwhite, It is better to abide in truth, then fellowship with error (no matter how sincere). Be encouraged and thankful that the Lord granted you grace to behold his truth, and desire the to abide in it. Thanks for sharing!  Blessings, Lady Sower~ |
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Post by bryan729 on Nov 26, 2009 15:19:13 GMT -5
Wow!!! I read this whole thread and I can see the common ground and similarities we all share. Incredible!!!  |
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