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Post by stephenpatrick on Nov 3, 2009 20:03:12 GMT -5
Good evening,
I'm almost embarrassed to ask, but I would like to give some reading material to my son (he's 22) on preterism. Are there any articles, or brief presentations on the subject, on the internet that I can print out and let him read. Some thing that gives a good overview but not terribly long. For some reason my mind is drawing a blank on what he can read to get the best understanding. Allyn, Mike, Ted, anything you guys may have written?
Thanks
Steve
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Post by Allyn on Nov 3, 2009 21:16:27 GMT -5
Check your PM Steve
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Post by mellontes on Nov 4, 2009 23:02:10 GMT -5
Good evening, I'm almost embarrassed to ask, but I would like to give some reading material to my son (he's 22) on preterism. Are there any articles, or brief presentations on the subject, on the internet that I can print out and let him read. Some thing that gives a good overview but not terribly long. For some reason my mind is drawing a blank on what he can read to get the best understanding. Allyn, Mike, Ted, anything you guys may have written? Thanks Steve - or to him :-) The reason I ask is because we are all different. Some can be reached on the time statements (very helpful). Don Preston has a few booklets that address this quite well (In Flaming Fire, Did Jesus Sat This?). Some can be reached by exposing Israel and the church as two separate entities - of course this depends upon one's present eschatology. Is your son a dispensationalist or partial preterist? Some can be reached by discussing Daniel 9. Everyone is different. Is your son a reader? Does he like to do research? I find most people today are NOT readers. Does he have a mind of his own? Brian Martin just put out an excellent DVD entitled "You've Gotta Be Kidding...Right? see this link www.fulfilledcg.com/Site/Video/video_reviews.htm It is really excellent! His book "Behind the Veil of Moses" is a good work as well... I have Don Preston's "Can God Tell Time" in a Word document. Give me an email address where I can send an attachment, and it is yours. You may send me a personal message if you wish... |
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Post by Michael J Loomis on Nov 5, 2009 14:23:14 GMT -5
Good evening, I'm almost embarrassed to ask, but I would like to give some reading material to my son (he's 22) on preterism. Are there any articles, or brief presentations on the subject, on the internet that I can print out and let him read. Some thing that gives a good overview but not terribly long. For some reason my mind is drawing a blank on what he can read to get the best understanding. Allyn, Mike, Ted, anything you guys may have written? Thanks Steve is an article I wrote. It's called, "Preterism...2000 Years in the Making." And a good collection of beginning articles can be found on another site of mine. www.preteristschool.com. It is a good primer for beginners and it includes Don Prestons, "Can God Tell Time." Also...Check back here on November 15th for the announcement of another great tool that is going to be made available to the preterist world. 8) |
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Post by mellontes on Nov 5, 2009 17:09:17 GMT -5
Good evening, I'm almost embarrassed to ask, but I would like to give some reading material to my son (he's 22) on preterism. Are there any articles, or brief presentations on the subject, on the internet that I can print out and let him read. Some thing that gives a good overview but not terribly long. For some reason my mind is drawing a blank on what he can read to get the best understanding. Allyn, Mike, Ted, anything you guys may have written? Thanks Steve is an article I wrote. It's called, "Preterism...2000 Years in the Making." And a good collection of beginning articles can be found on another site of mine. www.preteristschool.com. It is a good primer for beginners and it includes Don Prestons, "Can God Tell Time." Also...Check back here on November 15th for the announcement of another great tool that is going to be made available to the preterist world. 8) C'mon psychoguy...give us a break. What tool? We don't like to be kept in suspense!!!  |
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Post by Allyn on Nov 5, 2009 18:12:08 GMT -5
michaeljloomis.com/index.php?id=16 is an article I wrote. It's called, "Preterism...2000 Years in the Making." And a good collection of beginning articles can be found on another site of mine. www.preteristschool.com. It is a good primer for beginners and it includes Don Prestons, "Can God Tell Time." Also...Check back here on November 15th for the announcement of another great tool that is going to be made available to the preterist world. 8) C'mon psychoguy...give us a break. What tool? We don't like to be kept in suspense!!!  I know, I know - I have the answer  - but I can't tell you either. |
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Post by stephenpatrick on Nov 5, 2009 22:57:15 GMT -5
Good evening, I'm almost embarrassed to ask, but I would like to give some reading material to my son (he's 22) on preterism. Are there any articles, or brief presentations on the subject, on the internet that I can print out and let him read. Some thing that gives a good overview but not terribly long. For some reason my mind is drawing a blank on what he can read to get the best understanding. Allyn, Mike, Ted, anything you guys may have written? Thanks Steve - or to him :-) The reason I ask is because we are all different. Some can be reached on the time statements (very helpful). Don Preston has a few booklets that address this quite well (In Flaming Fire, Did Jesus Sat This?). Some can be reached by exposing Israel and the church as two separate entities - of course this depends upon one's present eschatology. Is your son a dispensationalist or partial preterist? Some can be reached by discussing Daniel 9. Everyone is different. Is your son a reader? Does he like to do research? I find most people today are NOT readers. Does he have a mind of his own? Brian Martin just put out an excellent DVD entitled "You've Gotta Be Kidding...Right? see this link www.fulfilledcg.com/Site/Video/video_reviews.htm It is really excellent! His book "Behind the Veil of Moses" is a good work as well... I have Don Preston's "Can God Tell Time" in a Word document. Give me an email address where I can send an attachment, and it is yours. You may send me a personal message if you wish... Good evening Ted. I didn't get to this site until tonight. Way too busy at work. Our house growing up was very involved with our church and and read the Bible a lot at home with the kids. I taught and so did my wife at church. Dispy's all the way. Mark is home for a few months so this is a good time. He does not like to do research or read as much as I would like, but he'll read it if I ask him. But it took me until I was about 26-28 until I started to read a lot. Maybe he'll do the same. I gave him the Introduction to Preterism at www.ecclesia.org. He read a bit. We'll talk later. Don Prestons article, Can God Tell Time. If it's the same one thats on preteristarchive.com then I have it. If not you can send it to me. I'll PM you with my home email just in case. My daughter and wife do agree with preterism though. We've talked about it very often and they agree with the soon and spiritual fulfillment of the parousia. They seem to have more on the ball than me. My other boy is in Colorado, so we talk on the phone, but usually only see him once a year. Right now I'm reading Dave Rudel, The Gospel You've Never Heard. (you can download it for free in a PDF. www.WhoReallyGoesToHell.com/While he isn't a preterist (I haven't finished the book yet, but he talks of the future return of Jesus in it) the beginning of his book he says that we should recognize and accept that Jesus was talking to real people at a specific time in history and we should believe him when He says it. Don't put words or ideas that are foreign into His mouth. The words mean what they say. Isn't that what preterists say all the time? So he's giving his take on the gospel. Don't agree with all of it, but he's an easy read. Mike, Thanks for the link to preteristschool.com I have never been to that one. I'll print some out for him, and myself. I appreciate all the help. I'll keep you all informed. Steve |
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Post by mellontes on Nov 5, 2009 23:54:12 GMT -5
C'mon psychoguy...give us a break. What tool? We don't like to be kept in suspense!!! I know, I know - I have the answer - but I can't tell you either. |
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Post by mellontes on Nov 6, 2009 0:02:11 GMT -5
Hey Allyn,
When Steve thanked Mike for the link to preteristschool.com, it made me think (yeah, I know, a miracle)
I had not heard of preteristschool.com before either. Perhaps you can set up a spot on this site so we can post preterist websites and their specific goals. Maybe we can label them 101, 201, 301, 401, etc according to their difficulty level. Maybe there should be kindergarten level too. That is where dispys should start off at. They don't accept covenant theology so getting them to understand covenant eschatology is an even greater task...
I think this would eventually be part and parcel in contribution to Larry Siegle's proclamation on his ning site preterismdebate.
What say you?
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Post by Allyn on Nov 6, 2009 8:24:15 GMT -5
I have created a new place for links and for those new to preterism. Check out the Muscle of Preterism category.
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Post by stephenpatrick on Nov 6, 2009 9:02:17 GMT -5
Good morning.
I just finished reading, again, Can God Tell Time, by Don Preston
That is excellent, and sooooo right.
I printed out a stack from preteristschool.com and bringing them home for my son to read.
Have a great day.
Steve
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Post by Once4all on Nov 6, 2009 11:19:24 GMT -5
...
Right now I'm reading Dave Rudel, The Gospel You've Never Heard. (you can download it for free in a PDF. ...
Steve . Unfortunately, the first five letters after the www spell a word that the forum software doesn't like, so it replaces it with something else. Steve (and others), I have a few copies of David's book to give away, if you want a hard copy to read. I did some editing for him, so he sent me several copies of the book. Just send me your mailing address in a PM. Bev |
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Post by stephenpatrick on Nov 6, 2009 14:21:10 GMT -5
Hi Bev.
Thanks for the offer of the book, but thats okay. I printed it out and put it into a 3-ring binder.
By the way, what did you think of the book?
Steve
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Post by Once4all on Nov 6, 2009 16:08:44 GMT -5
Hi Bev. Thanks for the offer of the book, but thats okay. I printed it out and put it into a 3-ring binder. By the way, what did you think of the book? Steve I thought it was rather good. There were some details I did not agree with, but overall I agree with him. Some of it didn't sink in right away, but I read it a second time and more pieces fell into place. It's in the queue to read yet again, this time going through it with my husband, as study material. Bev |
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Post by Once4all on Nov 6, 2009 16:19:17 GMT -5
Oh, Steve, if you like reading things that are a bit thought-provoking, I also highly recommend The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved by J. Phillips. It also is fully available online to read (a published version is available, as well). www.thedisciplewhomjesusloved.comHe addresses the question of who wrote the gospel of John and does a great job of supporting his conclusion with loads of Scripture. Bev |
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Post by mellontes on Nov 6, 2009 16:55:06 GMT -5
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Post by Michael J Loomis on Nov 6, 2009 18:32:39 GMT -5
I know, I know - I have the answer - but I can't tell you either. Shoot me an email if you want to know the details...I'm not ready for this to go public yet. michaeljloomis@gmail.com |
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Post by Michael J Loomis on Nov 6, 2009 18:40:56 GMT -5
I know, I know - I have the answer - but I can't tell you either. Shoot me an email if you want to know the details...I'm not ready for this to go public yet. michaeljloomis@gmail.com |
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Post by Once4all on Nov 6, 2009 20:51:11 GMT -5
Ordered! Thanks. This actually is quite exciting. One of the best books I've read lately is G.K. Beale's The Temple and the Church's Mission in which he makes the case for the Garden of Eden being the first temple. Walton backing that idea up one step further to the creation of the cosmos is quite provocative. I can't wait to read it! Bev |
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Post by Once4all on Nov 6, 2009 20:58:01 GMT -5
Hey, Allyn. It might be a good idea to have a forum specifically for book, video, and website recommendations so that they are not scattered willy-nilly among all the other forum categories. It could be a separate forum under General Discussions. As can be seen from the variety of books discussed in this thread the last couple of days, it should not be limited to only preterist material.
Just an idea!
Bev
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Post by Allyn on Nov 6, 2009 21:37:17 GMT -5
I set it up, Bev
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Post by mellontes on Nov 6, 2009 22:07:33 GMT -5
Email shot...check your junk box for first time recipients...thanks |
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Post by mellontes on Nov 6, 2009 22:10:42 GMT -5
Ordered! Thanks. This actually is quite exciting. One of the best books I've read lately is G.K. Beale's The Temple and the Church's Mission in which he makes the case for the Garden of Eden being the first temple. Walton backing that idea up one step further to the creation of the cosmos is quite provocative. I can't wait to read it! Bev I found it very thick reading...written by a non-preterist. As I understand things (about 2 months ago), an attemp was being made by preterist two covenant creationists to contact John Walton. I haven't heard a word since though... Beale's book looks interesting too. If I get it and start reading it, that means I will have 15 bookmarks on the go...plus all these groups...and a wife...man oh man. |
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Post by Once4all on Nov 6, 2009 22:30:28 GMT -5
Ordered! Thanks. This actually is quite exciting. One of the best books I've read lately is G.K. Beale's The Temple and the Church's Mission in which he makes the case for the Garden of Eden being the first temple. Walton backing that idea up one step further to the creation of the cosmos is quite provocative. I can't wait to read it! Bev I found it very thick reading...written by a non-preterist. As I understand things (about 2 months ago), an attemp was being made by preterist two covenant creationists to contact John Walton. I haven't heard a word since though... Beale's book looks interesting too. If I get it and start reading it, that means I will have 15 bookmarks on the go...plus all these groups...and a wife...man oh man. I can handle thick just fine, if the topic interests me. Another excellent book by Beale is We Become What We Worship: A Biblical Theology of Idolatry. It's a smaller book than Temple, but I found it equally interesting. It was the first Beale book I read. Unfortunately, he's only written three or four, I think. One of them is a Revelation commentary, but he's not a preterist. I believe he is an Idealist. Even so, I'd love to have that book, too, but that one is a bit pricey. Believe me, I can totally relate to "15 bookmarks on the go"! Bev |
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Post by MoGrace2U on Nov 7, 2009 20:22:53 GMT -5
Bev,
Amazon had 4 reviews on Beale's book on idolatry. Which is not a subject it seems many want to address let alone talk about. I thought all the reviews were good - could you be more specific on what you found good or not?
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Post by Once4all on Nov 7, 2009 22:19:43 GMT -5
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Post by Once4all on Nov 24, 2009 21:42:05 GMT -5
Ordered! Thanks. This actually is quite exciting. One of the best books I've read lately is G.K. Beale's The Temple and the Church's Mission in which he makes the case for the Garden of Eden being the first temple. Walton backing that idea up one step further to the creation of the cosmos is quite provocative. I can't wait to read it! Bev I found it very thick reading...written by a non-preterist. As I understand things (about 2 months ago), an attemp was being made by preterist two covenant creationists to contact John Walton. I haven't heard a word since though... Beale's book looks interesting too. If I get it and start reading it, that means I will have 15 bookmarks on the go...plus all these groups...and a wife...man oh man. Ted, I started reading Walton's book this evening. He writes well and explains things very well, with appropriate "ramp-up" to more complex discussions. I'm only in Prop 2, but I've already gone from thinking I've wasted my money to having that feeling in the back of my mind that he's on to something significant with his functional ontology proposition for the Genesis creation. The "wasting my money" part was from a couple of things he wrote that made me think his agenda was to push evolution. I'm hoping that's not the case. I found a problem, though, in Table 1 on page 42, where he lists supposedly every occurrence of the Hebrew bara in the Bible. He omitted Joshua 17:15 and 18, where it is translated "clear" or "cut" in the context of clearing a field by cutting down trees. So I thought maybe he intended only to list the instances where it was translated as a form of "create." But no, he also omitted Amos 4:13, where it is translated "creates" in NASB and "createth"in KJV. I just hope they weren't omitted because they do not support his conclusion. Bev |
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Post by Once4all on Nov 27, 2009 13:53:04 GMT -5
I found it very thick reading...written by a non-preterist. As I understand things (about 2 months ago), an attemp was being made by preterist two covenant creationists to contact John Walton. I haven't heard a word since though... Beale's book looks interesting too. If I get it and start reading it, that means I will have 15 bookmarks on the go...plus all these groups...and a wife...man oh man. Ted, I started reading Walton's book this evening. He writes well and explains things very well, with appropriate "ramp-up" to more complex discussions. I'm only in Prop 2, but I've already gone from thinking I've wasted my money to having that feeling in the back of my mind that he's on to something significant with his functional ontology proposition for the Genesis creation. The "wasting my money" part was from a couple of things he wrote that made me think his agenda was to push evolution. I'm hoping that's not the case. I found a problem, though, in Table 1 on page 42, where he lists supposedly every occurrence of the Hebrew bara in the Bible. He omitted Joshua 17:15 and 18, where it is translated "clear" or "cut" in the context of clearing a field by cutting down trees. So I thought maybe he intended only to list the instances where it was translated as a form of "create." But no, he also omitted Amos 4:13, where it is translated "creates" in NASB and "createth"in KJV. I just hope they weren't omitted because they do not support his conclusion. Bev I finished reading John H. Walton's The Lost World of Genesis One last night. I'm of the opinion that my initial concern when I started the book was correct: the underlying agenda of the book is to push an acceptance of evolution, regardless of the author's own denial in the book, made more than once, that such was not his motive. I don't buy it. Taking a functional view of the Creation narrative in Genesis 1 has merit, but I think the author is manipulating it a bit. Also, a functional view does not necessarily replace a material view. Both can be valid together, which the author admits in the FAQs in the back of the book. Where as G.K. Beale in his book The Temple and the Church's Mission, treats the Garden of Eden as the first temple, Walton ignores the Garden and claims that the cosmos itself is the temple. I think even in Walton's functional view of the cosmos creation, the Garden is the actual temple, not the cosmos. I would compare the people of Israel whom God set aside for Himself with the cosmos, and the tabernacle where God's presence would be among them with the Garden of Eden. Adam being the first priest to cultivate/minister in the Garden/tabernacle. His argument that science education (e.g., teaching evolution in the classroom) should be teleogically neutral (that what is taught should not imply claims to a purpose nor claims to a certainty of no purpose) is admirable on the surface. But that idea, coupled with a solely functional view of Genesis 1, results in zero percent chance of Creation or Intelligent Design being taught in school science classes, even as an option, and 100 percent chance of evolution being taught. Walton is simply using this functional ontology to support from the Bible an unpopular belief, similar to how homosexuals might manipulate some scriptures to support acceptance of a homosexual lifestyle from the Bible. |
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Post by Once4all on Dec 13, 2009 23:22:47 GMT -5
...
Right now I'm reading Dave Rudel, The Gospel You've Never Heard. (you can download it for free in a PDF. ...
Steve . Unfortunately, the first five letters after the www spell a word that the forum software doesn't like, so it replaces it with something else. Steve (and others), I have a few copies of David's book to give away, if you want a hard copy to read. I did some editing for him, so he sent me several copies of the book. Just send me your mailing address in a PM. Bev A quick note regarding the free book. If you request a book, after receiving it, if you are so inclined, I'd appreciate reimbursement for the postage (should be around $3). My return address will be on the envelope. This does not apply to anyone I've already sent a book to. It's just that I've realized that at three dollars and change a pop, this could add up to a bit of an unexpected expenditure on my part. I still have about 15 copies left. Thanks. Bev |
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