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Post by Allyn on Aug 18, 2008 12:27:04 GMT -5
This is a starter message for this thread which is in relation to the newest article on the Preterist Voice website "Are Demons Active Today?".
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Post by Paul Kelly on Aug 25, 2008 18:09:44 GMT -5
Hi Allyn,
This in an interesting subject, and one that perplexes me. It seems that virtually everyone I know (the pitfalls of having religious friends I suppose) has had some kind of demonic experience. It all seems so small scale to me though. For example, a friend of mine told me last year that he'd been in bed when he'd felt a demon pulling at his bedsheets. Now I hate to be skeptical, and, not that you'd guess, but he's one of my saner friends, but do demons really go around pulling on peoples bedsheets? I have another friend who believes his TV was at one time possessed by a demon (bought second hand of course). So he put it out in the shed and the problems stopped. So in the front room, about 20 yards from his bedroom, demons are wreaking havoc. Yet he only has to put the TV out in the shed, which is actually about 15 yards from his bedroom in the other direction (so in fact closer than when it was in his front room), and the problems somehow cease? Can demons not open doors?
I really don't know what to say. Some people seem prone to this kind of thing. I'm not sure whether it's imagination....or what. Another friend of mine senses demonic activity all over the place, in people's houses, in old buildings. But I feel nothing. I really can't explain what's going on.
Paul
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Post by Allyn on Aug 25, 2008 20:48:27 GMT -5
Hi Paul, I almost missed your response here. No, I don't know what's going on either except that whatever it is it seems to be catching. I know that I cannot say what brings people to dream up these stories or apparitions but I am convinced that it is not demons running amok. Over at www.theos.org the discussion is just getting started in the angels and demons section. Even Steve Gregg who I admire greatly) has claimed to have dispelled a demon from an individual. I suppose if there really is no demon then it would be easy to get rid of it. Anyway it is quite a fad and all the more reason to stay alert to avoid those things that may distract us. |
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Post by Paul Kelly on Aug 26, 2008 5:28:49 GMT -5
Hi Allyn,
The thing which puzzles me is that God seems almost powerless to stop them. What I mean is this. Some guy messes with an Ouija board. Demons end up allegedly wrecking the place, pulling on bed sheets, tweaking on curtains, making the temperature drop and so on....to be honest, the lamest things you could possibly imagine powerful spirit creatures wasting their time with. What happens after that? Well, they pray for help to God. God sometimes listens. Sometimes he doesn't. Even in the instances where he does appear to help, the problems more often than not return. If people live in a possessed house, more often than not they tend to move house. If the TV's possessed, they chuck it out. The point I'm making is that IF the demons were real, then I'd feel pretty confident that God could get rid of them. That to me, out of all the prayers one could utter, is one he'd answer, and could quite easily do something about. No problems at all.
Yet the phenomena seem to return time and time again. I really can't believe that, were a TV set possessed, that God couldn't get rid of whatever demon was possessing it. And why on earth are demons possessing TV sets anyway? Why are they twitching curtains? It just seems like the feeblest thing imaginable to be getting up to in your spare time.
But every story just can't be made up. There must be some sort of sound basis for explaining them, be it mental illness, vivid imagination, or a kind of a middle ground where you're not insane, but you do see/feel things which aren't there. Maybe drugs sometimes. Maybe stress. Who knows?
Paul
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Post by Allyn on Aug 26, 2008 6:48:47 GMT -5
There is a lot we do not know. There is alomost no reliable evidence that these things have really happened on their own. Do you know of any? What we see or hear comes second hand.
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Post by Paul Kelly on Aug 26, 2008 11:35:43 GMT -5
There is a lot we do not know. There is alomost no reliable evidence that these things have really happened on their own. Do you know of any? What we see or hear comes second hand. No I don't know of any. I'm not sure what would pass as reliable evidence to be honest. From a personal viewpoint I've seen nothing. But my friends who've "seen things" I trust enough to know they wouldn't lie, and that they're not crazy. At least I hope not. I suppose the only evidence that would satisfy is if I saw something myself. But would that be proof enough I wonder? Paul |
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Post by MoGrace2U on Sept 15, 2008 20:26:22 GMT -5
I'm baaaack! - sorry couldn't resist  We have a few examples in scripture of what demons could do - from throwing a boy into the fire, to beating up the sons of Sceva, also "prophesying", turning a man mad, etc. If we know there is a spiritual realm inhabited by both good and evil angels who can manifest themselves to us, why wouldn't we expect such things might happen? Unless you think the binding of the devil means he is rendered completely inactive. The devil who cares only about the things that be of men, no doubt knows what they fear as well as areas in which they are weak. Fear, deceit, madness, murderous hatred - and those are just a few of his "tools". Even Luther reported being visited; as did Carl Jung; and then there are Joseph Smith's apparitions who taught him his false doctrine - which are not unlike messages the idols of Mary STILL give. Point is that angels are all servants of the Lord and do His bidding. Which is a good reason not to give those devils a foothold thru sin. How else can He send a delusion to those who believe the lie? Answer: by sending a lying spirit to those He is not protecting! |
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Post by Allyn on Sept 15, 2008 20:50:11 GMT -5
Good to see you mograce. I just read something from Scripture the other day that spoke to me that it is us and not them that brings temptation. It is within us that temptation kindles. I will try to find that again, but my point is that even with the examples you gave there is no evidence otherwise that demons are active today. We can make it out to be they are but I really think we are just doing it to ourselves. The mind is atricky thing when not focused on the Lord.
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Post by lorilee on Mar 13, 2009 13:47:54 GMT -5
This is an older thread, but one thing I have questioned and wondered about is if there is scripture to back the fact that there are not demons/demon possessions happening today or that there is?? I noticed that the word "possession" is not in the OT at all. The first time the word is used is in Matthew 4:24, "and those which were posessed with devils." Why is that as well? Were there no possessions during the OT times?
But every story just can't be made up. There must be some sort of sound basis for explaining them, be it mental illness, vivid imagination, or a kind of a middle ground where you're not insane, but you do see/feel things which aren't there. Maybe drugs sometimes. Maybe stress. Who knows?
I've never seen anything first hand that I can even say was related to demonic activity. The events that people claim are demonic, could possibly be a result of hallucinations brought about by drugs or alchol. But, I am going to contribute it to man and what is said in 1 John 2:16, "For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world."
Lori
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