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Post by mellontes on Jun 14, 2009 20:17:30 GMT -5
My wife and I personally experienced the following on Saturday, June 13th, 2009...
I had contacted a dispensational acquaintance (formerly a friend) about picking up a book I had lent him. The book was called "Behind the Veil of Moses" by Brian Martin, editor of Fulfilled Magazine. I planned also to leave him 3 more books (2 by Don Preston - "How Is This Possible?"and "Mystery Babylon" and Stephen Sizer's "Zion's Christian Soldiers").
When we arrived at their home, the husband asked us in and the wife promptly turned away from us. I mentioned to the husband that I had three more books for him to "peruse." He went through them and in the middle of my explanation of their themes, the wife grabbed them and quite bluntly said "I will not allow this stuff into our house!" and move them to the counter by the door. The husband never said a word. I should have left then, but I didn't - I wanted to try to have fellowship. I have heard of late how this is supposed to be possible with other Christians. We talked shallowly about this, that and a few other things but there was plainly no connection. The wife was polite, but very cold. This same wife (Brenda) spent several hours with my wife during some very trying times during Brenda's infant son's illness. He eventually died before reaching his first birthday. My wife spent a lot of time at Sick Kids hospital in Toronto with her. We were at the funeral and I was a pallbearer. We had some good times and some sad times together. Now we are utter castaways.
I think it pointless and fruitless to venture forth an effort to attempt fellowship unless they either 1) come to full-preterism or 2) realize that Christian fellowship is not based upon one's eschatological views. We are not allowed to discuss the Bible - it is forbidden because "apparently" I will attempt to twist the Scriptures to my liking...and overthrow their faith. Brenda is extremely ignorant of the Scriptures and has very little understanding of her own theology - dispensationalism. Everything has been filtered through her husband who is absolutely relentless in his efforts to convert me back to the land of dispies... I will never go back to that false reality that places national Israel above my Lord Jesus Christ!
Anyway, I left hurt, frustrated and angry. Pray for me and my wife. Water does not flow off of my back very easily... The husband has had much opportunity to see these things, but he is not seeking. I must leave him to the Lord. There goes my last contact of everyone I had ever known in the gospel. Dispensationalism is one cruel theology!
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Post by Allyn on Jun 14, 2009 20:45:41 GMT -5
This is a sad story, Ted and one that may happen all too often. Why do we Christians do this to one another? Somehow our equal love for Christ must take precedence, but I know exactly how you must feel, Ted.
I pray for all of us
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Post by Michael J Loomis on Jun 15, 2009 1:10:56 GMT -5
May the Lord bless you and keep you, May He make His face shine upon you and give you peace!!!
Do what you can and put the rest in His hands.
Pmike
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Post by Paul Kelly on Jun 15, 2009 4:52:44 GMT -5
Sad story. I wonder if her son's death had anything to do with her reaction? I have a friend who believes that when Christ comes, everyone will be resurrected back to the earth. After his wife died, this became his sole focus and hope. I've been trying to discuss the possibility of a heavenly resurrection with him for years now...and the idea that Christ may already have come...but he simply won't have it. I think it frightens him to think his hope may be misplaced. He's spent so long dreaming about what will happen when Jesus returns and they're together again on earth, I don't think he could cope with being wrong. Paul My wife and I personally experienced the following on Saturday, June 13th, 2009... I had contacted a dispensational acquaintance (formerly a friend) about picking up a book I had lent him. The book was called "Behind the Veil of Moses" by Brian Martin, editor of Fulfilled Magazine. I planned also to leave him 3 more books (2 by Don Preston - "How Is This Possible?"and "Mystery Babylon" and Stephen Sizer's "Zion's Christian Soldiers"). When we arrived at their home, the husband asked us in and the wife promptly turned away from us. I mentioned to the husband that I had three more books for him to "peruse." He went through them and in the middle of my explanation of their themes, the wife grabbed them and quite bluntly said " I will not allow this stuff into our house!" and move them to the counter by the door. T he husband never said a word. I should have left then, but I didn't - I wanted to try to have fellowship. I have heard of late how this is suppoes to be possible with other CHristians. We talked shallowly about this, that and a few other things but there was plainly no connection. The wife was polite, but very cold. This same wife (Brenda) spent several hours with my wife during some very trying times during Brenda's infant son's illness. He eventually died before reaching his first birthday. My wife spent a lot of time at Sick Kids hospital in Toronto with her. We were at the funeral and I was a pallbearer. We had some good times and some sad times together. Now we are utter castaways. I think it pointless and fruitless to venture forth an effort to attempt fellowship unless they either 1) come to full-preterism or 2) realize that Christian fellowship is not based upon one's eschatological views. We are not allowed to discuss the Bible - it is forbidden because " apparently" I will attempt to twist the Scriptures to my liking...and overthrow their faith. Brenda is extremely ignorant of the Scriptures and has very little understanding of her own theology - dispensationalism. Everything has been filtered through her husband who is absolutely relentless in his efforts to convert me back to the land of dispies... I will never go back to that false reality that places national Israel above my Lord Jesus Christ! Anyway, I left hurt, frustrated and angry. Pray for me and my wife. Water does not flow off of my back very easily... The husband has had much opportunity to see these things, but he is not seeking. I must leave him to the Lord. There goes my last contact of everyone I had ever known in the gospel. Dispensationalism is one cruel theology! |
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Post by mellontes on Jun 15, 2009 21:48:02 GMT -5
Sad story. I wonder if her son's death had anything to do with her reaction? I have a friend who believes that when Christ comes, everyone will be resurrected back to the earth. After his wife died, this became his sole focus and hope. I've been trying to discuss the possibility of a heavenly resurrection with him for years now...and the idea that Christ may already have come...but he simply won't have it. I think it frightens him to think his hope may be misplaced. He's spent so long dreaming about what will happen when Jesus returns and they're together again on earth, I don't think he could cope with being wrong. Paul Resurrected back to Earth??? |
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Post by Once4all on Jun 15, 2009 23:19:09 GMT -5
Ted, I'm sorry to hear of that, too. Many of us lost friends when we became Christians, and it seems that this is the very same emotional response, except in this case it's a Christian-Christian relationship that gets severed instead of believer-nonbeliever.
Bev
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Post by Paul Kelly on Jun 16, 2009 4:27:26 GMT -5
Sad story. I wonder if her son's death had anything to do with her reaction? I have a friend who believes that when Christ comes, everyone will be resurrected back to the earth. After his wife died, this became his sole focus and hope. I've been trying to discuss the possibility of a heavenly resurrection with him for years now...and the idea that Christ may already have come...but he simply won't have it. I think it frightens him to think his hope may be misplaced. He's spent so long dreaming about what will happen when Jesus returns and they're together again on earth, I don't think he could cope with being wrong. Paul Resurrected back to Earth??? Yep...so a heavenly resurrection is a difficult sell for him. In fact he even said once "I don't want to go to heaven, I want to be resurrected right back here to the earth". A few religions believe in an earthly resurrection.....Jehovah's Witnesses, Biblical Unitarians....likely many more. |
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Post by MoGrace2U on Jun 16, 2009 10:32:31 GMT -5
When have God's people ever listened to the prophets He sent them? Men seem to want a religion that will comfort their flesh rather than raise their spirits and elevate their hope to the things that are not of this world. An earthly utopia makes sense to them because they have no experience of heaven. And the brief contact they have with the heavenly realm thru worship and prayer gets overwhelmed by the things that go on here daily.
What did David say when his child died?
2 Sam 12:19 But when David saw that his servants whispered, David perceived that the child was dead: therefore David said unto his servants, Is the child dead? And they said, He is dead.
2 Sam 12:20 Then David arose from the earth, and washed, and anointed himself, and changed his apparel, and came into the house of the LORD, and worshipped: then he came to his own house; and when he required, they set bread before him, and he did eat.
2 Sam 12:21 Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread.
2 Sam 12:22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?
2 Sam 12:23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
2 Sam 12:24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the LORD loved him.
It would seem a right hope encourages one to persevere in love and faith toward God and one another. That is the real snare the dispie doctrines rob men of because it skews their hope to be about this life, while the life to come is taught as though it were a thing of nought.
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Post by kazwhite on Sept 16, 2009 0:02:39 GMT -5
Okay, this is a real "girly" perspective. I would pray for this couple. It is so very hard to loose a child and keep faith in God. Of any persuasion. I know that you are taking it very hard what has happened between you, but since I take it you still want to love them in the Lord, send a nice card (get someone to make one, don't buy an over the counter one) just dropping a note to say hi. Let them know you are ALWAYS there for them, no matter what. If you see them, just don't have religious intercourse with them. One day you can connect again and then move forward. But pray, and keep praying.
Karen
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