Post by Allyn on Apr 25, 2009 9:20:33 GMT -5
Over the last couple of weeks I have been doing some lite study on the subject pertaining to a portion, at least, of Revelation 20. Even before my study began I had determined that the futurists were out to lunch on their concept of what the chapter was talking about when it came to their thinking that Satan has not yet been bound, that he is still free to disrupt the work of the Gospel of Christ and that it is still yet a future event concerning this and his ultimate little season and ultimate destruction.
I also then believe that they have it wrong concerning the setting of the thousand year reign of the saints with Christ by taking the setting out of heaven and placing it on earth with not dead saints reigning with an already victorious Christ but instead live saints living in a kingdom to come on earth and with Christ not able to reign until then and then not even reign because of His victory but reigning because of the use of force upon others with a rod of iron.
This to me is an unbiblical concept and reduces Christ to a mere man.
So having established in my mind that Christ is now and forever victorious and knowing that His sheep truly do know Him and follow Him because of love and adoration for Him. And having established that Satan is unable to stop the forward motion of the Gospel and so in that sense he is absolutely bound, I then moved on to where Rev. 20 may be more clearly be spoken of concerning Christ's throne.
It came to me one day that Daniel 7 was related to Rev. 20 because of the similar language, From there it led me to Matthew 19 and of course Acts 1. All three locations spoke of the glory Christ came into. They are all related in this way. But even more then that, when I discovered this I also was able to fit in a couple of other passages that seemed to complete the puzzle for me.
What I would like to share now is the completed puzzle concerning the thrones spoken of and how they might all be related. I am going to quote the Scripture concerning these things and and then open this thread up for discussion to either agree or take the puzzle apart. I will put them in some form of order hoping you will understand that they are really all the same time frame but with their own separate distinguishing elements (if that makes sense).
First, the promise to the Disciples, from Jesus, who follow His teachings.
I believe the regeneration is the coming to faith of every individual who calls upon the name of Jesus but specifically in this passage those of the house of Israel. I believe that the thrones are symbolic of the authority the Apostles were given with power to bring the Gospel of Christ to them and since the Gospel not only brings one to salvation it also convicts the heart of the sinner.
This is the realization of what Jesus had told His disciples and that the HS was going to be the One who would lead them as authority figures upon those symbolic thrones.
We also see the event of Christ now leaving them to rejoin His Father.
These thrones are the same thrones that Jesus told His disciples they would be seated on in Matthew 19.
This, I believe is what takes place very soon after Jesus' ascension. It is what is described as taking place in another passage that I had always considered before as the second coming of Christ but now believe it to be the judgment of the dead who died prior to the Cross of Christ. That other place in Scripture is Matthew 25, but first:
Here we see that Jesus is coming to the Father, being escorted by the holy angels. We see that the books were opened at this time. The same books of Revelation 20 and now, as I see it, the same books of Matthew 25.
Jesus here is ascending to His Father, coming to His glory with His holy angels. All the nations gathered before Him are those who were of the Old Covenant dead. There are both those like Lazarus and the rich man; each separated by a great gulf. Each already knowing their fate but not yet officially judged.
This Matthew 25 passage is the clincher for me that this is the resurrection of the dead in the 1st century. The resurrection of the still living has not yet taken place.
Now, I want to leave it here for now and see what comments might come out of this. I think we can easily go into deeper thoughts which might bring out other passages. Lets see where it leads us.
I also then believe that they have it wrong concerning the setting of the thousand year reign of the saints with Christ by taking the setting out of heaven and placing it on earth with not dead saints reigning with an already victorious Christ but instead live saints living in a kingdom to come on earth and with Christ not able to reign until then and then not even reign because of His victory but reigning because of the use of force upon others with a rod of iron.
This to me is an unbiblical concept and reduces Christ to a mere man.
So having established in my mind that Christ is now and forever victorious and knowing that His sheep truly do know Him and follow Him because of love and adoration for Him. And having established that Satan is unable to stop the forward motion of the Gospel and so in that sense he is absolutely bound, I then moved on to where Rev. 20 may be more clearly be spoken of concerning Christ's throne.
It came to me one day that Daniel 7 was related to Rev. 20 because of the similar language, From there it led me to Matthew 19 and of course Acts 1. All three locations spoke of the glory Christ came into. They are all related in this way. But even more then that, when I discovered this I also was able to fit in a couple of other passages that seemed to complete the puzzle for me.
What I would like to share now is the completed puzzle concerning the thrones spoken of and how they might all be related. I am going to quote the Scripture concerning these things and and then open this thread up for discussion to either agree or take the puzzle apart. I will put them in some form of order hoping you will understand that they are really all the same time frame but with their own separate distinguishing elements (if that makes sense).
First, the promise to the Disciples, from Jesus, who follow His teachings.
Matthew 19:28 So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
I believe the regeneration is the coming to faith of every individual who calls upon the name of Jesus but specifically in this passage those of the house of Israel. I believe that the thrones are symbolic of the authority the Apostles were given with power to bring the Gospel of Christ to them and since the Gospel not only brings one to salvation it also convicts the heart of the sinner.
Acts 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
This is the realization of what Jesus had told His disciples and that the HS was going to be the One who would lead them as authority figures upon those symbolic thrones.
We also see the event of Christ now leaving them to rejoin His Father.
Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them.
These thrones are the same thrones that Jesus told His disciples they would be seated on in Matthew 19.
Rev. 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
This, I believe is what takes place very soon after Jesus' ascension. It is what is described as taking place in another passage that I had always considered before as the second coming of Christ but now believe it to be the judgment of the dead who died prior to the Cross of Christ. That other place in Scripture is Matthew 25, but first:
Daniel 7: 9 “ I watched till thrones were put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;
10 A fiery stream issued
And came forth from before Him.
A thousand thousands ministered to Him;
Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.
The court was seated,
And the books were opened.
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;
10 A fiery stream issued
And came forth from before Him.
A thousand thousands ministered to Him;
Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.
The court was seated,
And the books were opened.
Here we see that Jesus is coming to the Father, being escorted by the holy angels. We see that the books were opened at this time. The same books of Revelation 20 and now, as I see it, the same books of Matthew 25.
Matthew 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Jesus here is ascending to His Father, coming to His glory with His holy angels. All the nations gathered before Him are those who were of the Old Covenant dead. There are both those like Lazarus and the rich man; each separated by a great gulf. Each already knowing their fate but not yet officially judged.
This Matthew 25 passage is the clincher for me that this is the resurrection of the dead in the 1st century. The resurrection of the still living has not yet taken place.
Now, I want to leave it here for now and see what comments might come out of this. I think we can easily go into deeper thoughts which might bring out other passages. Lets see where it leads us.