24 elders

[lorilee]

Anyone ever study about the 24 elders in Revelation? Any idea who or what they represent?? I have heard that they represent the 12 tribes of Israel (OT saints) and the 12 apostles (NT saints), but no scriptures to really back this.

Revelation 4:4, "And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold."

(seats is the same greek word as thrones (2362) and means a throne or seat of authority.)

These elders are also mentioned in Revelation 4:10, 5:5-6, 5:8, 5:11, 5:14, 7:11, 7:13, 11:16, 14:3, 19:4

Wondering if there is any relation of these 24 elders to:

Revelation 20:4, "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the Word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

And a sidenote, I have always thought that the amount spoken of in Revelation 5:11 was how many angels were in heaven. Now, I am wondering if this amount includes the beasts and the elders?

Revelation 5:11, "And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands."

Any ideas or thoughts would be appreciated.

Lori

[preterist]

4:1 (NKJV) I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, "Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place."

God's Court in Heaven

4:2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne.
[everything and everybody look very physical in heaven]

3 And He who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius stone in appearance; and there was a rainbow around the throne, in appearance like an emerald.

4 Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting,

Note: and not the twelve apostles (Mt19:28b). Actually, in the complete (Christian) 'Revelation', no apostle is said to be in heaven and, contrary to Mt19:28b, none of them judges anyone. The assumption that the 'twenty-four' includes the 12 apostles, plus the 12 tribal patriarchs would leave out the like of Moses, Jacob, Isaac and Abraham!
(Note: in the gospels, this foursome is suggested to be alive: Mk9:4, Mt8:11,17:3, Lk9:30,13:28)
But, from the point of view of an ex-priest, the twenty-four elders, as representatives for each of the original twenty-four courses of priests servicing the temple, make a lot of sense! (Ref: 1Chronicles 24, Josephus' Ant., VII, XIV, 7)
` clothed in white robes; and they had crowns of gold on their heads.

5 And from the throne proceeded lightning, thundering, and voices. Seven lamps of fire were burning [there is air in heaven!] before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
[and no mention of the Holy Spirit, as would be expected from a Christian writer]

6 Before the throne there was a sea of glass, like crystal.
[probably refer to the top of the vault (or firmament) over the earth: see Genesis1:6-8. Also in 1Enoch18:3 "And I saw how the winds stretch out the vaults of heaven," and Job22:14 RSV "Thick clouds enwrap him [God], so that he does not see, and he walks on the vault of heaven.'"]
` And in the midst of the throne, and around the throne, were four living creatures full of eyes in front and in back.

7 The first living creature was like a lion, the second living creature like a calf, the third living creature had a face like a man, and the fourth living creature was like a flying eagle.

8 The four living creatures, each having six wings, were full of eyes around and within. And they do not rest day or night, saying: "Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, Who was and is and is to come!"
[the mythical creatures can talk! Also notice "is to come", referring to God's coming on earth (as in chapters 21-22)]

9 Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, who lives forever and ever,

10 the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying:

11 "You are worthy, O Lord, To receive glory and honor and power; For You created all things, and by Your will they exist and were created."



also.....

Note: this list of tribes is not according to the O.T., as in Joshua13-19. Here, Joseph has no tribe, but his two sons, Manasseth and Ephraim, have one each; Dan, Joseph's brother, also has a tribe. However in the former list, Joseph is IN and Ephraim & Dan are OUT. Going back to 'Joshua', the twelve tribes are actually thirteen (Levi has a tribe -- "the tribe of Levi" (Joshua13:14,33)-- even if no territory is allotted to it). More complications for the proponents of 'the 12 apostles plus the 12 patriarchs' for the "twenty-four elders"!

[MoGrace2U]

Hi Lorilee & Preterist, - Welcome to the board!

I think the 24 elders are the heavenly council pictured for us in the appointing of Aaron and his 24 sons to the priesthood, who were ordained to make the atonement for Israel. The typology is fulfilled in Christ.

Also the 12 minor prophets are called 'the twelve' in the Hebrew canon and they plus the 12 apostles represent the heavenly council in the earth. The law and the prophets is thus fully represented in the heavens and the earth which laid the foundation for the Church in the wilderness as well as the NT Bride.

These 2 witnesses (law & prophets) are represented also by Moses and Elijah in Rev 11. The picture is a multifold one of the judgment in the earth which comes from the oil of heaven which is poured out into the lamps in the earth by the Spirit of God.