2012

[Allyn]

What does the title of this thread bring to mind for some of you? It seems that our futurist friends have no end to their prognostication concerning the end of days, but now they have an end in mind and to many of them it is the year 2012.

I won't go into the details as to why this paticular year was selected - I will leave that to some of you, but I have a paticular discussion in mind for this thread.

If anything, it can be said of a futurist that at least he has an end game in mind. A time when time ends. On the otherhand we preterists seem to have nothing we can put our finger of understanding on with regards to the far future of civilization. That's what it seems anyway.

The truth is we do have an idea of how the future is to go and along these lines is how I would like to see this thread develop.

As I stated in my second paragraph I wouldn't mind also a discussion herein on the 2012 endtime year speculation grasped by the futurist camp but primarily I thought we should bring out what we do best and that is to avoid speculation (to some degree) and produce Scripture that helps identify what is in store for the world. Of course I do want personal opinions as well but if we identify it as such then this too will be within the intent of this thread.

What are your thoughts?

[stephenpatrick]

Hi Allyn,

I'm really not quite sure what your question is. Things look rather bleak throughout the world right now, yet throughout history there have always been brutal times for people to go through. The remnants of futurism in myself beg for intervention, yet I just don't know, or maybe my faith is weak on this topic now.

If all things which were written have been fulfilled, then I guess the ride into the future is going to be a wild one, testing our faith and trust in Jesus Christ in degrees which we haven't known.

[Paul Kelly]

Hi Allyn,

I'm completely unfamiliar with the 2012 idea, so I don't have anything to say about that, though I am interested to know how the date's been determined. As for what's in store for the world, I don't think there are any scriptures that specifically answer this question for us.

More of the same I'd imagine....wars, disease, financial hard times, financial good time, times of peace, times of prosperity, people living and dying. Times aren't great right now. But they've been much worse in the past and no doubt will be again.

Paul

[Once4all]

The only scripture that came to mind that might be projected into the future are these words of Jesus:

"For you always have the poor with you..." (Matthew 26:11, Mark 14:7, John 12:8)

Bev

[mtymousie]

Try to imagine going back 1000 years to 1009 and asking folks about 1012. The dire circumstances so many of those people lived under back then would probably leave them all thinking the next three years were going to be very bleak and hoping that *the Lord would come back*.

My point is that every generation thinks the same exact thing and I blame the popular notion of futurism for the dreary outlook that so many have.

preteristmouse

[mellontes]

Yeah, yeah the Mayan calendar and all that sort of rot...

But shouldn't the date be 2019??? That will allow for the rapture of the church...

[Allyn]

JVI I guess has written a book concerning this. I haven't seen the book but from what I can tell he believes there is something to this 2012 date.

My point of the thred was to kind of get a feel for what you all think the world might look like in the future (far or near). I beleive God's whole purpose now is to have the Gospel of Christ spread. I think with that in mind God maycause or allow certain activities to take place that will bring the world more ready for His Word. I think He has demonstrated this often since the cross and it may be time once again.

Fot example I would not be surprised at all that this economic situation we are going through presently may lead to many nations to collapse and a whole different way of life will develop to such a degree that people once again become dependent upon one another. This is one possibility which would aid in the spreading of the Gospel.

[Sower]

Hi Allyn,

I agree! It seem that people seek the Lord more, in times of distress, disaster and fear!

However, we know it's better to seek the Lord at all times.

Lady Sower~

[john14and9]

Jan 30, 2009 8:52:36 GMT -5 Allyn said:

What does the title of this thread bring to mind for some of you? It seems that our futurist friends have no end to their prognostication concerning the end of days, but now they have an end in mind and to many of them it is the year 2012.

I won't go into the details as to why this paticular year was selected - I will leave that to some of you, but I have a paticular discussion in mind for this thread.

If anything, it can be said of a futurist that at least he has an end game in mind. A time when time ends.

On the otherhand we preterists seem to have nothing we can put our finger of understanding on with regards to the far future of civilization.

That's what it seems anyway.



The truth is we do have an idea of how the future is to go and along these lines is how I would like to see this thread develop.

As I stated in my second paragraph I wouldn't mind also a discussion herein on the 2012 endtime year speculation grasped by the futurist camp but primarily I thought we should bring out what we do best and that is to avoid speculation (to some degree) and produce Scripture that helps identify what is in store for the world. Of course I do want personal opinions as well but if we identify it as such then this too will be within the intent of this thread.

What are your thoughts?

Ephesians 3:21

Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

[mellontes]

Feb 6, 2009 7:01:24 GMT -5 john14and9 said:

Jan 30, 2009 8:52:36 GMT -5 Allyn said:

What does the title of this thread bring to mind for some of you? It seems that our futurist friends have no end to their prognostication concerning the end of days, but now they have an end in mind and to many of them it is the year 2012.

I won't go into the details as to why this paticular year was selected - I will leave that to some of you, but I have a paticular discussion in mind for this thread.

If anything, it can be said of a futurist that at least he has an end game in mind. A time when time ends. That's what it seems anyway.



The truth is we do have an idea of how the future is to go and along these lines is how I would like to see this thread develop.

As I stated in my second paragraph I wouldn't mind also a discussion herein on the 2012 endtime year speculation grasped by the futurist camp but primarily I thought we should bring out what we do best and that is to avoid speculation (to some degree) and produce Scripture that helps identify what is in store for the world. Of course I do want personal opinions as well but if we identify it as such then this too will be within the intent of this thread.

What are your thoughts?

Ephesians 3:21

Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

I guess I am a trekkie at heart. Let's just take the last 100 years. Man can now fly. Man ventured a little bit into outerspace on the technology of 10 Commodore 64's hooked up in series (or paralllel). Satellites, microwave, infrared technology, radar, stealth bombers, wireless and so much more just in the last 100 years.

Now the bad side. Financial depression and economic collapse on more than one occasion. Two very serious world wars and a few other less serious ones.

What do I see in the future? Well, if man lasts another 1,000 years I can't even imagine life, if technology progresses at the same rate it has been for the last 100 years. I see food replicators, but not particle transport for humans because of the whole soul/spirit issue. In the year 3009, people will probably look back at us in pity thinking how could we have possible driven those 4 wheeled metal & plastic things and slept on mattress with springs and/or high density foam.

Of couse, we will always have the poor people...

[mtymousie]

Feb 8, 2009 22:00:52 GMT -5 @mellontes said:

Feb 6, 2009 7:01:24 GMT -5 john14and9 said:

Ephesians 3:21

Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

I guess I am a trekkie at heart. Let's just take the last 100 years. Man can now fly. Man ventured a little bit into outerspace on the technology of 10 Commodore 64's hooked up in series (or paralllel). Satellites, microwave, infrared technology, radar, stealth bombers, wireless and so much more just in the last 100 years.

Now the bad side. Financial depression and economic collapse on more than one occasion. Two very serious world wars and a few other less serious ones.

What do I see in the future? Well, if man lasts another 1,000 years I can't even imagine life, if technology progresses at the same rate it has been for the last 100 years. I see food replicators, but not particle transport for humans because of the whole soul/spirit issue. In the year 3009, people will probably look back at us in pity thinking how could we have possible driven those 4 wheeled metal & plastic things and slept on mattress with springs and/or high density foam.

Of couse, we will always have the poor people...

In The Year 2525
by Zager and Evans

In the year 2525
If man is still alive
If woman can survive
They may find

In the year 3535
Ain't gonna need to tell the truth, tell no lies
Everything you think, do, or say
Is in the pill you took today

In the year 4545
Ain't gonna need your teeth, won't need your eyes
You won't find a thing to do
Nobody's gonna look at you

In the year 5555
Your arms are hanging limp at your sides
Your legs not nothing to do
Some machine is doing that for you

In the year 6565
Ain't gonna need no husband, won't need no wife
You'll pick your son, pick your daughter too
From the bottom of a long black tube

In the year 7510
If God's a-comin' he ought to make it by then
Maybe he'll look around himself and say
Guess it's time for the Judgement day

In the year 8510
God's gonna shake his mighty head
He'll either say I'm pleased where man has been
Or tear it down and start again

In the year 9595
I'm kinda wondering if man's gonna be alive
He's taken everything this old earth can give
And he ain't put back nothing

Now it's been 10,000 years
Man has cried a billion tears
For what he never knew
Now man's reign is through
But through the eternal night
The twinkling of starlight
So very far away
Maybe it's only yesterday

In the year 2525
If man is still alive
If woman can survive
They may find

In the year 3535
Ain't gonna need to tell the truth, tell no lies
Everything you think, do or say
Is in the pill you took today ....(fading)


The above song was apparently not written by a Zionist.


preteristmouse

[mellontes]

Yep. I remember that song alright. Brings back a lot of memories...

[Allyn]

Feb 9, 2009 10:27:17 GMT -5 @mellontes said:

Yep. I remember that song alright. Brings back a lot of memories...

I remember it too, and I also remember thinking how off that song was considering my then futuristic beliefs.

[mellontes]

Maybe Zager and Evans were rock preterists???

[mtymousie]

Feb 9, 2009 14:31:33 GMT -5 @mellontes said:

Maybe Zager and Evans were rock preterists???

LOL! What an idea. I love it.

[MoGrace2U]

Perhaps I am not getting the point of using that song. It sounds like the secular view of a world without hope that God has long ago abandoned and left to its own devices. How does that reflect the preterist POV?

[mtymousie]

Feb 9, 2009 21:53:35 GMT -5 MoGrace2U said:

Perhaps I am not getting the point of using that song. It sounds like the secular view of a world without hope that God has long ago abandoned and left to its own devices. How does that reflect the preterist POV?

Actually I posted it to go along with the "trekkie" comment. I never really paid that much attention to the lyrics before this current exchange, but there does seem to be a rather satirical statement towards the futility of futurism in there.

preteristmouse

[MoGrace2U]

Hi Mty,
You know the futurists do tend to think of Jesus as not being "here", which is why they need their millennial kingdom for Him to reign in the earth. Like ruling from heaven is not a greater vantage point!

[adhitthana]

Jan 30, 2009 8:52:36 GMT -5 Allyn said:

What does the title of this thread bring to mind for some of you? It seems that our futurist friends have no end to their prognostication concerning the end of days, but now they have an end in mind and to many of them it is the year 2012.

2012 is a date said to be associated with the Mayan calendar. It is said to be a time of change or a time when this period of history culminates.
I am not aware of christian groups looking to 2012 though.

If anything, it can be said of a futurist that at least he has an end game in mind.

Well, they do, but a depressing one. And the NT gives us no reason to look to the future in a way, that is in any way depressing.

A time when time ends.

I think we are in the time when "time" can end, for us. See Hebrews 3-4.

On the otherhand we preterists seem to have nothing we can put our finger of understanding on with regards to the far future of civilization. That's what it seems anyway.

Well, there is "world without end amen"

But maybe the answer is too obvious, maybe we dont even realise how blinded we might be due to futurist misinformation.

The end of all things happened, we are not waiting for anything. We have free access to God.

If we want it we can have it, but we can be miserable too if we want that.

There is so much I could say here. I will have to come back, but I tend to think, at times, that the truth is so good we can have trouble believing it at times (or me anyway...I shouldn;t speak for everyone)

[Allyn]

Feb 14, 2009 6:53:10 GMT -5 adhitthana said:

Jan 30, 2009 8:52:36 GMT -5 Allyn said:

What does the title of this thread bring to mind for some of you? It seems that our futurist friends have no end to their prognostication concerning the end of days, but now they have an end in mind and to many of them it is the year 2012.

2012 is a date said to be associated with the Mayan calendar. It is said to be a time of change or a time when this period of history culminates.
I am not aware of christian groups looking to 2012 though.





Well, they do, but a depressing one. And the NT gives us no reason to look to the future in a way, that is in any way depressing.




I think we are in the time when "time" can end, for us. See Hebrews 3-4.

On the otherhand we preterists seem to have nothing we can put our finger of understanding on with regards to the far future of civilization. That's what it seems anyway.

Well, there is "world without end amen"

But maybe the answer is too obvious, maybe we dont even realise how blinded we might be due to futurist misinformation.

The end of all things happened, we are not waiting for anything. We have free access to God.

If we want it we can have it, but we can be miserable too if we want that.

There is so much I could say here. I will have to come back, but I tend to think, at times, that the truth is so good we can have trouble believing it at times (or me anyway...I shouldn;t speak for everyone)

I'm happy to see you back. I look forward to more from you - brother.

[Sower]

Feb 14, 2009 8:00:42 GMT -5 Allyn said:

I'm happy to see you back. I look forward to more from you - brother.

Me, two!

Lady Sower~

[adhitthana]

Hey.... Hi Allyn and Lady Sower. Glad to be back!

[2012]

watcher.boardzero.com/the-watcher-forum-f3/the-new-discovery-newton2012-and-gino-s-conversation-t116.html