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Post by Sower on Jan 8, 2009 17:51:04 GMT -5
The scripture (Isaiah 65:17-20; Revelation 21-22), clearly show that "sin and death" exist in the "new heavens and new earth." Agree, or disagree?  Lady Sower~ |
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Post by stephenpatrick on Jan 8, 2009 19:25:26 GMT -5
Isaiah 65:20 “No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed."
It says there are those who will sin in the very passage which speaks of the new heavens and earth.
So yes, I agree.
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Post by Michael J Loomis on Jan 8, 2009 23:43:25 GMT -5
I agree too
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Post by mellontes on Jan 9, 2009 0:47:58 GMT -5
The scripture (Isaiah 65:17-20; Revelation 21-22), clearly show that "sin and death" exist in the "new heavens and new earth." Agree, or disagree? Lady Sower~ Agree! I thought that was an excellent point you made. Too bad Elfin is totally blinded... |
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Post by Sower on Jan 9, 2009 17:21:38 GMT -5
Hello Forum. Thanks, for the responses! I'm pleased that we all agree!  Lady Sower~ |
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Post by mellontes on Jan 9, 2009 17:53:18 GMT -5
Hello Forum. Thanks, for the responses! I'm pleased that we all agree! Lady Sower~ I guess the majority is right after all...  Sure hope PaulT doesn't get a hold of that or we will never convince him that the majority of church history was wrong... |
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Post by Sower on Jan 9, 2009 23:06:43 GMT -5
Hello Forum. Thanks, for the responses! I'm pleased that we all agree! Lady Sower~ I guess the majority is right after all... Sure hope PaulT doesn't get a hold of that or we will never convince him that the majority of church history was wrong... My lips, are sealed!  Lady Sower~ |
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Post by adhitthana on Jan 15, 2009 15:34:21 GMT -5
Isaiah 65:20 “No more shall an infant from there live but a few days, Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days; For the child shall die one hundred years old, But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed." It says there are those who will sin in the very passage which speaks of the new heavens and earth. So yes, I agree. Which version is being quoted here I wonder? The NIV , for example reads, 20 "Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; he who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere youth; he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed. What is the Hebrew word translated as sinner? Is there an online resource to tell us? |
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Post by Paul Kelly on Jan 16, 2009 7:22:22 GMT -5
Isaiah 65:20 “No more shall an infant from there live but a few days, Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days; For the child shall die one hundred years old, But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed." It says there are those who will sin in the very passage which speaks of the new heavens and earth. So yes, I agree. Which version is being quoted here I wonder? The NIV , for example reads, 20 "Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; he who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere youth; he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed. What is the Hebrew word translated as sinner? Is there an online resource to tell us? The version quoted above is the New King James Version: www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2065;&version=50;And the Hebrew word translated sinner is "Chata". Here's a Lexicon: www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=02398And here's an interlinear...simply follow to verse 20: www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/isa65.pdfPaul |
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Post by Sower on Jan 18, 2009 17:03:37 GMT -5
Some (myself included), believe the new heavens and new earth, to be representative of the new covenant, not a "literal" new heavens and new earth!
What say you?
Lady Sower~
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Post by MoGrace2U on Jul 15, 2009 13:57:23 GMT -5
Recently this passage came up at CARM to support the idea that the destruction of the earth is global in view speaking of the time of the end of the world and the new eternal H & E. But Peter as a Jewish apostle, is using the OT for his thesis.
2 Pet 3:3-4 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
First off this reference is found most clearly here in these passages - which context is interesting too.
Jer 17:15 Behold, they say unto me, Where is the word of the LORD? let it come now.
Ezek 12:22 Son of man, what is that proverb that ye have in the land of Israel, saying, The days are prolonged, and every vision faileth?
But notice how Peter says now they are saying that all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation? Is he talking about the Genesis account of Adam? NO! Because he says since the fathers fell asleep - that would be after the patriarchs went to Egypt - before the Exodus. That is the marker for his timing. That was the 1st prophecy given to Abraham about how his children would go there until Moses was sent to lead them into the promise land.
It is since that time in Egypt they began saying this BECAUSE they had forgotten that after the flood in Noah's day a new creation was begun and Israel was the essential beginning of that when Abraham was called. So that is the first instance of a new H & E which they should have known already yet had forgotten. They came into being after God had destroyed the wicked generation that began with Adam. Israel herself was the new H & E in that day. I hope you can see the type being developed here. (I have to go to work...)
And that is where those passages in Jer & Ezek are interesting because ANOTHER new H & E was coming in the day of Messiah. And the new would only come after the old ended - which they were told would be them if they too became corrupt. But just like Noah presevered a few for the new world, so would God save a remnant in that day to start over again with a better covenant.
No way is Peter even suggesting that his context is some universal end to the world bringing an end to the good creation God first began with Adam then again with Noah or now finally with the Church of Christ. Now we have the dominion in the kingdom that will never end!
Hope this blesses you like it did me this morning.
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Post by Allyn on Jul 15, 2009 16:14:31 GMT -5
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