Post by Once4all on Dec 17, 2008 10:23:24 GMT -5
First, some quotes from the" Traditions..." thread which really started this thread about loneliness.
Good morning,
Taken from one of the posts on the thread, Preterist Teaching on DVD.
I liked Curtis' comments about being Bereans, such as:
"Hopefully this study will be a wake-up call for all of us to be Bereans. It is our responsibility to search the Scriptures and not to rely on what others have said. We have to stop relying on the "scholars" and do our own homework. The "-scholars" tend to rely on the work of other "scholars" that went before them. What happens if successive generations tended to rely on the work of those who have preceded them? And what happens if an error gets introduced into this sequence early on? If an error went unchallenged long enough, it would eventually become accepted as truth and correcting this error would become more difficult as time went on, because its "historical acceptance" would become a rationale for assuming that this idea must be true."
While the above comment had to do with being a Berean in our Bible studies, I'm curious, are there any traditions right now in your life that are . . . just traditions? I mean, think about it. Whether they have to do with Christianity, America, the rest of the world, family, current events, holidays, history or so-called historical events, etc., can you name some of them? I know for myself in the past few years I've discovered many that were just that, traditions. Or they were just flat out lies. And I had to make some decisions that actually cost me friends and disdain from others. My entire biblical viewpoint on everything has been turned upside down now that I suspect 99.9% of futurism. Every single Christian that I know or fellowship with is a futurist of some sort, and I continually hear about the "return of Jesus" based on events happening in the world today. I feel very alone sometimes.
Any thoughts or comments?
Morning Steve,
Though I agree with you 100%, I want to comment on your last few sentences. I understand and relate to that feeling alone. I have always been a skeptic of traditions and biblical views being turned upside down describes me. I lost several who I considered very good friends over the last 4 years and not because I was in their face about my new paradigm but because I have a different view then theirs. What a sad time that put me in when I thought the loyalty of those friendships would never be affected. Instead I experienced disfellowship and bad behavior from my one time friends.
Its all water under the bridge now but the lonliness sometimes creeps back in. But through it all I have made it my ambition to present the truth and even its variations so that a well informed decision can be made. I still have a church home and the pastor totally accepts me and has even trusted me with the church website. I have learned to speak on my beliefs only when asked by my local friends and try to provide a good response when asked.
It all still hurts at times.
I'm keeping all the quotes in. They're all good.
Loneliness. Yes, I feel it, too. Surely, almost everyone who has been branded as a heretic because their search for truth has led them away from orthodoxy can relate. The exception might be those who have shifted from one complete theological paradigm to another, such as a Roman Catholic who becomes a Jehovah's Witness or vice versa. There is sadness at the loss of friends, but they have at least moved from one body into another body of like believers.
But us, who through our own individual studies, have made major changes to specific areas of our beliefs (eschatology, Christology, etc.), we find ourselves suddenly plunged into isolation. For example, I know of only one other non-trinitarian preterist out there. I'm sure there must be others, but we haven't encountered them yet. If I separate the two "heresies," the opportunity for fellowship grows. I know several preterists (through this group and others) and I know several non-trinitarians (through other groups). But there is still that feeling of separation because of the one belief or the other.
I've stayed with the same church, even after changing my belief about who God is. I've told no one in the church, except the pastor. He does not ostracize me, he does not tell me I'm condemned because of it. He still accepts me as a sister in Christ. I still hold the same responsibilities in the church. When I told him about my changed belief, I offered to step down from my duties, but he didn't see any need for that. (I publish the bulletin, work in the sound room, and maintain the website.) I did assure him at the outset that I would not "advertise" my beliefs to other church members, but would freely admit them if asked directly. He's OK with that. He bounces sermon ideas off of me and I have the freedom to choose scriptures and stories for the bulletin. I'm not sure I could find that level of love and trust at another church, so I thank God often for this congregation and its leadership.
My preterists beliefs are newer. I've not told anyone in the church at all. Yet. It's kind of funny.... my belief in preterism blossomed during a several month long Wednesday night study at church of the book of Revelation. The teacher (who is the pastor) was teaching from an historicist perspective, which is how I used to believe, and did believe through most of the Revelation study. But it was during that study that I started to examine preterism more.
OK, I've said enough! One thing that has become more apparent of late is that I have become extremely disenchanted with the ways of discussion over at places like CARM. The vitriol that passes for discussion there is not honoring to God in any way, and is probably sinful behavior. If we can't discuss our differences in love, then the love of God is not in us.
Bev
Taken from one of the posts on the thread, Preterist Teaching on DVD.
I liked Curtis' comments about being Bereans, such as:
"Hopefully this study will be a wake-up call for all of us to be Bereans. It is our responsibility to search the Scriptures and not to rely on what others have said. We have to stop relying on the "scholars" and do our own homework. The "-scholars" tend to rely on the work of other "scholars" that went before them. What happens if successive generations tended to rely on the work of those who have preceded them? And what happens if an error gets introduced into this sequence early on? If an error went unchallenged long enough, it would eventually become accepted as truth and correcting this error would become more difficult as time went on, because its "historical acceptance" would become a rationale for assuming that this idea must be true."
While the above comment had to do with being a Berean in our Bible studies, I'm curious, are there any traditions right now in your life that are . . . just traditions? I mean, think about it. Whether they have to do with Christianity, America, the rest of the world, family, current events, holidays, history or so-called historical events, etc., can you name some of them? I know for myself in the past few years I've discovered many that were just that, traditions. Or they were just flat out lies. And I had to make some decisions that actually cost me friends and disdain from others. My entire biblical viewpoint on everything has been turned upside down now that I suspect 99.9% of futurism. Every single Christian that I know or fellowship with is a futurist of some sort, and I continually hear about the "return of Jesus" based on events happening in the world today. I feel very alone sometimes.
Any thoughts or comments?
Morning Steve,
Though I agree with you 100%, I want to comment on your last few sentences. I understand and relate to that feeling alone. I have always been a skeptic of traditions and biblical views being turned upside down describes me. I lost several who I considered very good friends over the last 4 years and not because I was in their face about my new paradigm but because I have a different view then theirs. What a sad time that put me in when I thought the loyalty of those friendships would never be affected. Instead I experienced disfellowship and bad behavior from my one time friends.
Its all water under the bridge now but the lonliness sometimes creeps back in. But through it all I have made it my ambition to present the truth and even its variations so that a well informed decision can be made. I still have a church home and the pastor totally accepts me and has even trusted me with the church website. I have learned to speak on my beliefs only when asked by my local friends and try to provide a good response when asked.
It all still hurts at times.
I'm keeping all the quotes in. They're all good.
Loneliness. Yes, I feel it, too. Surely, almost everyone who has been branded as a heretic because their search for truth has led them away from orthodoxy can relate. The exception might be those who have shifted from one complete theological paradigm to another, such as a Roman Catholic who becomes a Jehovah's Witness or vice versa. There is sadness at the loss of friends, but they have at least moved from one body into another body of like believers.
But us, who through our own individual studies, have made major changes to specific areas of our beliefs (eschatology, Christology, etc.), we find ourselves suddenly plunged into isolation. For example, I know of only one other non-trinitarian preterist out there. I'm sure there must be others, but we haven't encountered them yet. If I separate the two "heresies," the opportunity for fellowship grows. I know several preterists (through this group and others) and I know several non-trinitarians (through other groups). But there is still that feeling of separation because of the one belief or the other.
I've stayed with the same church, even after changing my belief about who God is. I've told no one in the church, except the pastor. He does not ostracize me, he does not tell me I'm condemned because of it. He still accepts me as a sister in Christ. I still hold the same responsibilities in the church. When I told him about my changed belief, I offered to step down from my duties, but he didn't see any need for that. (I publish the bulletin, work in the sound room, and maintain the website.) I did assure him at the outset that I would not "advertise" my beliefs to other church members, but would freely admit them if asked directly. He's OK with that. He bounces sermon ideas off of me and I have the freedom to choose scriptures and stories for the bulletin. I'm not sure I could find that level of love and trust at another church, so I thank God often for this congregation and its leadership.
My preterists beliefs are newer. I've not told anyone in the church at all. Yet. It's kind of funny.... my belief in preterism blossomed during a several month long Wednesday night study at church of the book of Revelation. The teacher (who is the pastor) was teaching from an historicist perspective, which is how I used to believe, and did believe through most of the Revelation study. But it was during that study that I started to examine preterism more.
OK, I've said enough! One thing that has become more apparent of late is that I have become extremely disenchanted with the ways of discussion over at places like CARM. The vitriol that passes for discussion there is not honoring to God in any way, and is probably sinful behavior. If we can't discuss our differences in love, then the love of God is not in us.
Bev
I didn't mention you by name because I try to respect privacy, especially about sensitive issues. I couldn't remember you talking about your non-trin beliefs here at P.V. before, so I didn't want to expose you for the heretic you are. 
