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Post by stephenpatrick on Dec 17, 2008 8:05:15 GMT -5
Good morning,
Taken from one of the posts on the thread, Preterist Teaching on DVD.
I liked Curtis' comments about being Bereans, such as:
"Hopefully this study will be a wake-up call for all of us to be Bereans. It is our responsibility to search the Scriptures and not to rely on what others have said. We have to stop relying on the "scholars" and do our own homework. The "-scholars" tend to rely on the work of other "scholars" that went before them. What happens if successive generations tended to rely on the work of those who have preceded them? And what happens if an error gets introduced into this sequence early on? If an error went unchallenged long enough, it would eventually become accepted as truth and correcting this error would become more difficult as time went on, because its "historical acceptance" would become a rationale for assuming that this idea must be true."
While the above comment had to do with being a Berean in our Bible studies, I'm curious, are there any traditions right now in your life that are . . . just traditions? I mean, think about it. Whether they have to do with Christianity, America, the rest of the world, family, current events, holidays, history or so-called historical events, etc., can you name some of them? I know for myself in the past few years I've discovered many that were just that, traditions. Or they were just flat out lies. And I had to make some decisions that actually cost me friends and disdain from others. My entire biblical viewpoint on everything has been turned upside down now that I suspect 99.9% of futurism. Every single Christian that I know or fellowship with is a futurist of some sort, and I continually hear about the "return of Jesus" based on events happening in the world today. I feel very alone sometimes.
Any thoughts or comments?
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Post by Allyn on Dec 17, 2008 8:27:16 GMT -5
Good morning,
Taken from one of the posts on the thread, Preterist Teaching on DVD.
I liked Curtis' comments about being Bereans, such as:
"Hopefully this study will be a wake-up call for all of us to be Bereans. It is our responsibility to search the Scriptures and not to rely on what others have said. We have to stop relying on the "scholars" and do our own homework. The "-scholars" tend to rely on the work of other "scholars" that went before them. What happens if successive generations tended to rely on the work of those who have preceded them? And what happens if an error gets introduced into this sequence early on? If an error went unchallenged long enough, it would eventually become accepted as truth and correcting this error would become more difficult as time went on, because its "historical acceptance" would become a rationale for assuming that this idea must be true."
While the above comment had to do with being a Berean in our Bible studies, I'm curious, are there any traditions right now in your life that are . . . just traditions? I mean, think about it. Whether they have to do with Christianity, America, the rest of the world, family, current events, holidays, history or so-called historical events, etc., can you name some of them? I know for myself in the past few years I've discovered many that were just that, traditions. Or they were just flat out lies. And I had to make some decisions that actually cost me friends and disdain from others. My entire biblical viewpoint on everything has been turned upside down now that I suspect 99.9% of futurism. Every single Christian that I know or fellowship with is a futurist of some sort, and I continually hear about the "return of Jesus" based on events happening in the world today. I feel very alone sometimes.
Any thoughts or comments? Morning Steve, Though I agree with you 100%, I want to comment on your last few sentences. I understand and relate to that feeling alone. I have always been a skeptic of traditions and biblical views being turned upside down describes me. I lost several who I considered very good friends over the last 4 years and not because I was in their face about my new paradigm but because I have a different view then theirs. What a sad time that put me in when I thought the loyalty of those friendships would never be affected. Instead I experienced disfellowship and bad behavior from my one time friends. Its all water under the bridge now but the lonliness sometimes creeps back in. But through it all I have made it my ambition to present the truth and even its variations so that a well informed decision can be made. I still have a church home and the pastor totally accepts me and has even trusted me with the church website. I have learned to speak on my beliefs only when asked by my local friends and try to provide a good response when asked. It all still hurts at times. |
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Post by stephenpatrick on Dec 17, 2008 9:55:18 GMT -5
quote:
I have learned to speak on my beliefs only when asked by my local friends and try to provide a good response when asked.
I agree and have been keeping my mouth shut for a long time too. Only problem is when the topic in question comes up I'm required to nod and agree with it. When I don't, I'm the divisive one. So for the most part, as you said, unless someone asks me specifically what I think on the subject, I keep quiet. And that does hurt . .
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Post by Once4all on Dec 17, 2008 9:59:03 GMT -5
Allyn and Steve.... All I can say is I know just how the both of you feel. In fact, I have a longer reply that I started to Allyn's post, then decided that "Loneliness" deserved its own thread. So I'll start that one, then come back to reply about traditions. Which I think is also a very good thread.
Bev
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Post by Once4all on Dec 17, 2008 11:41:59 GMT -5
Christmas: In my family (just the two of us), we've not put up a Christmas tree in several years. I stopped sending Christmas cards even before that. The last two or three years we have dispensed with buying each other gifts, except that we still bought gifts for local family members. This year, the whole family decided not to exchange gifts.
You must think it is a pretty dreary season at our house, but it's not. My MIL still puts up a small tree at her house. I put up a few small decorations: a wreath made of ornaments on the door and a rustic wooden "Merry Christmas" sign in the house. Writing this, I realize that I haven't put those up yet this year. Hmm.... need to do that. We have a special family dinner. We also participate in the Christmas Eve service at our church.
I believe Christmas to be a man-made holiday, thus a man-made tradition, that has become buried in commercialism. If we had children, we might think differently about it. But we don't, so to us it's just a man-made tradition that forces people to spend money they probably don't have.
Bev
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Post by stephenpatrick on Dec 17, 2008 15:09:46 GMT -5
Hi Bev, What? No Christmas? You need to go to counseling. You need help!  Bev, those were the exact words by my mother-in-law (a very, conservative, Baptist) said to me about 5-6 years ago when I decided to not participate in the holiday of Christmas, and a few other traditions which many believers take as gospel. She was livid. When I made my case to my wife and kids as to why we should not take an active part in the holiday, they surprisingly agreed. My youngest son at the time (he was about 15 yrs. old) bummed a bit since there would be no gifts, but has gotten over it. My daughter felt relieved. It still is a difficult thing to answer during this time of year when asked what we are going to do for the holidays. They all look at you funny and say, "But I thought you were a Christian?" I believe Christmas as we know it today came from the pagan holy days from the past and Jesus has just replaced whatever god is the flavor of the month. And I realize that doesn't sit well with most . . . so I keep quiet about it until asked. |
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Post by Once4all on Dec 17, 2008 15:56:34 GMT -5
I'm not a total scrooge... I still say "Merry Christmas" to people. But when people ask things like, "Are you all ready for Christmas?" or "Did you get all your shopping done?" my usual reply is "We don't really do Christmas." I agree with you Steve that its origin is pagan. Here's an article I posted last year to my blog about Christmas and the the power of tradition. web.cloudbow.com/blog/?p=5What other traditions have you given up, Steve? We don't make a big deal of birthdays, but we do recognize them and try to do something special on those days. One of the Christian traditions that bothers me most is the tiny little bits of bread and tiny cups of juice that pass for the Lord's Supper. I realize the scriptures don't give us a whole lot to go on, but something just isn't right about how it's done today. Bev |
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Post by stephenpatrick on Dec 17, 2008 17:02:27 GMT -5
Hi Bev.
Thanks for the link to your article. I liked it.
What other traditions?
Easter, for pretty much the same reasons as Christmas. It's origins and background.
I've wondered of late that if God really wanted believers to celebrate the birth of Jesus, then the world wouldn't be caught dead near it. The world loves Christmas yet doesn't really like Jesus at all.
Still do birthdays, but toned down now that everyone is an adult.
Voting. While I wouldn't call this a Christian tradition, I believe that my choice to not vote is biblical, even though the right wing of the church has pretty much declared it a Christian sacrament. Dr. James Kennedy said it was a sin not to vote. Jesus' example, or lack thereof when it comes to government, I think speaks volumes for the believer. He had nothing to do with it. I also believe there is a very strong statement in the OT with regard to leadership in the government which has kept me away, knowing full well that God has already decided who shall lead the nations of the world, regardless of my vote. Also, I just do not trust my government one bit. History has shown them to be powerfully wicked. I trust my God can keep them in check for His purposes. How this squares with preterism I just do not know.
I somewhat agree with you about the communion time. For me the question is, why grape juice instead of wine? Isn't that what the literalist's would/should ask? But to be fair, I think the little cups are for cleanliness. Did you ever go to a Catholic service and watch them pass around the big chalice of wine? Can you imagine getting to the bottom of the cup when it is passed to you? Yuk and yuk.
From Valentines Day, Halloween, Mothers Day, Fathers Day, etc.
Hopefully I am treating and loving my wife all the days of the year, and her to me.
Steve
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Post by Allyn on Dec 17, 2008 17:07:51 GMT -5
Great article, Bev. May I copy and send it to my pastor?
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Post by Once4all on Dec 17, 2008 23:05:42 GMT -5
Great article, Bev. May I copy and send it to my pastor? Sure! Thanks for asking. I'm glad you liked it. Bev |
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Post by Once4all on Dec 17, 2008 23:39:29 GMT -5
Easter, for pretty much the same reasons as Christmas. It's origins and background. Oh yeah, Easter too. I agree. I've wondered of late that if God really wanted believers to celebrate the birth of Jesus, then the world wouldn't be caught dead near it. The world loves Christmas yet doesn't really like Jesus at all. True. It's as though the church tried to Christianize a pagan holiday and now the pagans are trying to take it back. There's certainly nothing wrong with remembering his birth through the scripture, being thankful to God for giving His Son, even teaching/preaching it at a certain time each year. But the whole Santa Claus, Christmas tree, spend spend spend thing ... let the heathen have it.
Voting. While I wouldn't call this a Christian tradition, I believe that my choice to not vote is biblical, even though the right wing of the church has pretty much declared it a Christian sacrament. Dr. James Kennedy said it was a sin not to vote. Jesus' example, or lack thereof when it comes to government, I think speaks volumes for the believer. He had nothing to do with it. I also believe there is a very strong statement in the OT with regard to leadership in the government which has kept me away, knowing full well that God has already decided who shall lead the nations of the world, regardless of my vote. Also, I just do not trust my government one bit. History has shown them to be powerfully wicked. I trust my God can keep them in check for His purposes. How this squares with preterism I just do not know.I go back and forth on the voting thing. I did not vote for the first time until I was in my 30s. I can still count on one hand the number of times I've voted. I certainly don't see any mandate for votiing in the Bible; but I don't see anything against it, either. I'm also somewhat of a pacifist, though my position is changing on self-defense and protection of others in cases of direct threat. I somewhat agree with you about the communion time. For me the question is, why grape juice instead of wine? Isn't that what the literalist's would/should ask? But to be fair, I think the little cups are for cleanliness. Did you ever go to a Catholic service and watch them pass around the big chalice of wine? Can you imagine getting to the bottom of the cup when it is passed to you? Yuk and yuk. I was at a nondenominational Protestant service that used one large cup. Someone wiped the rim of the cup (large glass goblet, actually) after each person took a sip. I thought that was still a bit unsanitary. So, yes, I can see the use of multiple cups. It's the miniscule size of everything. It's a symbolic snack and not a meal at all. From Valentines Day, Halloween, Mothers Day, Fathers Day, etc.
Hopefully I am treating and loving my wife all the days of the year, and her to me. Halloween... don't get me started. Bev |
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