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Post by Sower on Apr 7, 2010 21:03:13 GMT -5
Is the question the Philippian jailer asked Paul and Silas (Acts 16:25-30).
Answer...
Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Additional scriptures: John 3:16; John 14:6; Romans 10:9,10; Acts 4:12; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
The Sower~
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Post by mellontes on Apr 8, 2010 0:37:24 GMT -5
Is the question the Philippian jailer asked Paul and Silas (Acts 16:25-30). Answer... Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Additional scriptures: John 3:16; John 14:6; Romans 10:9,10; Acts 4:12; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. The Sower~ Why didn't Paul say to the jailer that he needed to repent? |
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Post by Allyn on Apr 8, 2010 8:17:13 GMT -5
Is the question the Philippian jailer asked Paul and Silas (Acts 16:25-30). Answer... Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Additional scriptures: John 3:16; John 14:6; Romans 10:9,10; Acts 4:12; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. The Sower~ Why didn't Paul say to the jailer that he needed to repent? When they spoke the word of the Lord to them does that not include the need of repentance?  |
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Post by MoGrace2U on Apr 8, 2010 8:55:28 GMT -5
The very fact the jailer responds to this miracle with a desire to be saved shows that his faith was such that he feared and believed God. And for that right response, the apostles point him to Christ.
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Post by mellontes on Apr 8, 2010 9:57:08 GMT -5
The very fact the jailer responds to this miracle with a desire to be saved shows that his faith was such that he feared and believed God. And for that right response, the apostles point him to Christ. But the devil believed and feared God too... James 2:19 - Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. Not disagreeing, just pointing out the similarities. What made the jailer's belief a saving belief? And my question regarding repentance is Jewish related... |
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Post by MoGrace2U on Apr 8, 2010 11:58:23 GMT -5
Similarities perhaps but a notable difference is there too. What demon can request salvation from the condemnation that is upon him? Salvation is for men, not angels.
When Cornelius (Acts 10) and his household were saved it was by the hearing of the gospel - no mention of repentance there either. And it is told to us that Cornelius was a devout man, even giving alms & praying in the temple. No man is required to repent of his good works - only dead ones. Cornelius was a man seeking to obey the God he had come to know in Israel. Therefore he had already repented of his idolatry. This was a heart God had prepared - and so He tells him by an angel to send for Peter.
Whereas Peter was already right there in the prison, ready to serve this jailer with the gospel he needed to hear and believe.
The difference between what you see with Israel's required repentance precross and that of the Gentiles post cross is the difference between those under the OC and the those who come right into the NC by their expression of faith in Christ upon hearing the gospel.
Which is why I believe the preterists call it a fulfilled redemption!
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Post by Sower on Apr 8, 2010 13:28:30 GMT -5
Apostle Paul on Mars hill said all people are commanded to repent (Acts 17:30), and Peter said everyone should "repent and be baptized" in the name of Jesus for the remission of their sin (Acts 2:38).
However, we know the thief on the cross was not baptized, and though he probably repented, we know that called on the Lord...
Luke 23:42 And he said 'unto' the Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise."
I do not minimize 'repentence and/or baptism,' but emphasize the primary requisite for salvation seem to be calling on the name of Jesus:
Joel 2:32; Acts 2:21; 4:12; Romans 10:9-13.
The Sower~
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Post by Morris on Apr 8, 2010 15:06:34 GMT -5
Why didn't Paul say to the jailer that he needed to repent? ... And my question regarding repentance is Jewish related... In 2 Peter 3:9 we find, " The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all [all, any, every, the whole] should come to repentance." In 2 Timothy 2:19, " Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." and verse 25, " In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth". 2 Cor 7:10, " For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." Acts 11:18, " When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." I find no distinction between repentance of Jew or of Gentile. John 3:16 says, " For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." There is no mention of repentance. Yet we also find in Matt 4:17, " From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.", no mention of believe. However, Matt 21:23, " Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him." Mark 1:15, " "The time has come," he said. "The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!" ", and, Acts 19:4, " Paul said, John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus."" Now, Do devils have free will to be capable of repentance? If they do, are they really any different than man? Belief and repentance go hand in hand. If you truly believe you will repent. If you repent it is because you truly believe. I think that if we take all of what the scripture says on the topic, each individual part makes more sense. |
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Post by truestand on Jun 3, 2010 0:29:10 GMT -5
I think that the sum of the answer might be in the definition of the word repentance as represented in the context of the respective text being viewed. Often we forget that we are reading a translation that sometimes fails to express the full meaning of the original language. The Greek word repent is metanoeô Definition: to change one's mind or purpose: to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally feel compunction). Which seems to denote conviction of error and the turning away from said error to truth. The English definition is not the same as the Greek. From the Cambridge Dictionary: Repent - to be very sorry for something bad you have done in the past and wish that you had not done it. The idea being that one must change ones thoughts and behavior in regard to that which is in error to that which is true. The guilt over ones error (sin) and the expression of sorrow is not in itself repentance. Yet one cannot be repentant and continue in said error, changing ones mind and behavior concerning sin is required.
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Post by truestand on Jun 3, 2010 0:33:30 GMT -5
Oh yeah, and concerning the jailers question, repent is to change ones mind from unbelief to belief is the Lord Jesus.
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Post by Morris on Jun 3, 2010 9:09:45 GMT -5
Very true, truestand.
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Post by Once4all on Jun 3, 2010 21:44:16 GMT -5
... From the Cambridge Dictionary: Repent - to be very sorry for something bad you have done in the past and wish that you had not done it. ... I had no idea this definition was actually in a dictionary! I thought it was just bad theology. Good grief.  |
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Post by mtymousie on Jan 2, 2011 18:13:44 GMT -5
I'd like to make a quick note on the assumption that the thief on the cross was not baptised. First consider that just because he was called a thief did not make him an evil man. He could have been caught stealing a pig to feed his starving family. Now look at this passage: "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins." (Mark 1:4-5)
The passage above proves that a very large part of the population heard John preach and were baptized. Now finally consider the meaning of the words the thief said to Jesus on the cross: "And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. " Luke 23:42)
How did the thief know about Jesus and His coming kingdom?
My assumption is that someone that impressed by the preaching would not hesitate to be baptised at the same venue.
preteristmouse
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Post by Allyn on Jan 2, 2011 18:46:19 GMT -5
I'd like to make a quick note on the assumption that the thief on the cross was not baptised. First consider that just because he was called a thief did not make him an evil man. He could have been caught stealing a pig to feed his starving family. Now look at this passage: "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins." (Mark 1:4-5) The passage above proves that a very large part of the population heard John preach and were baptized. Now finally consider the meaning of the words the thief said to Jesus on the cross: "And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. " Luke 23:42) How did the thief know about Jesus and His coming kingdom? My assumption is that someone that impressed by the preaching would not hesitate to be baptised at the same venue. preteristmouse I actually had never considered that before. |
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Post by didymus on Jan 2, 2011 22:52:14 GMT -5
I think that the sum of the answer might be in the definition of the word repentance as represented in the context of the respective text being viewed. Often we forget that we are reading a translation that sometimes fails to express the full meaning of the original language. The Greek word repent is metanoeô Definition: to change one's mind or purpose: to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally feel compunction). Which seems to denote conviction of error and the turning away from said error to truth. The English definition is not the same as the Greek. From the Cambridge Dictionary: Repent - to be very sorry for something bad you have done in the past and wish that you had not done it. The idea being that one must change ones thoughts and behavior in regard to that which is in error to that which is true. The guilt over ones error (sin) and the expression of sorrow is not in itself repentance. Yet one cannot be repentant and continue in said error, changing ones mind and behavior concerning sin is required. This gives me a question. What if someone already has the proper understanding of sin? I remember reading, "Honor thy father and thy mother." But my parents often act dishonorably, so I had a hard time with this commandment. I remember crying out to God, asking how I could honor mom and dad when they act so dishonorably. Mind you, I was very young when I prayed that way. 6 or 7 as I recall. As I got older, into my teens, I told God I was sorry, I couldn't honor my father and mother. Where does this scenario fit in with scheme of repentence? I was of the mind that I wanted to honor my father and mother, but I was not able to, and I knew it was sin not to.  |
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Post by didymus on Jan 2, 2011 22:57:48 GMT -5
I'd like to make a quick note on the assumption that the thief on the cross was not baptised. First consider that just because he was called a thief did not make him an evil man. He could have been caught stealing a pig to feed his starving family. Now look at this passage: "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins." (Mark 1:4-5) The passage above proves that a very large part of the population heard John preach and were baptized. Now finally consider the meaning of the words the thief said to Jesus on the cross: "And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. " Luke 23:42) How did the thief know about Jesus and His coming kingdom? My assumption is that someone that impressed by the preaching would not hesitate to be baptised at the same venue. preteristmouse That may be true, but can we know for certain that the thief was baptised? He certainly recognised Jesus as the Christ. |
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Post by Allyn on Jan 3, 2011 9:00:46 GMT -5
I think that the sum of the answer might be in the definition of the word repentance as represented in the context of the respective text being viewed. Often we forget that we are reading a translation that sometimes fails to express the full meaning of the original language. The Greek word repent is metanoeô Definition: to change one's mind or purpose: to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally feel compunction). Which seems to denote conviction of error and the turning away from said error to truth. The English definition is not the same as the Greek. From the Cambridge Dictionary: Repent - to be very sorry for something bad you have done in the past and wish that you had not done it. The idea being that one must change ones thoughts and behavior in regard to that which is in error to that which is true. The guilt over ones error (sin) and the expression of sorrow is not in itself repentance. Yet one cannot be repentant and continue in said error, changing ones mind and behavior concerning sin is required. This gives me a question. What if someone already has the proper understanding of sin? I remember reading, "Honor thy father and thy mother." But my parents often act dishonorably, so I had a hard time with this commandment. I remember crying out to God, asking how I could honor mom and dad when they act so dishonorably. Mind you, I was very young when I prayed that way. 6 or 7 as I recall. As I got older, into my teens, I told God I was sorry, I couldn't honor my father and mother. Where does this scenario fit in with scheme of repentence? I was of the mind that I wanted to honor my father and mother, but I was not able to, and I knew it was sin not to. I can't specifically answer your question but this reminds me of what Jesus told the people concerning the Jewish leaders saying that they were to obey what they were told but not to do what they do. |
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Post by kangaroojack on Jan 3, 2011 12:35:16 GMT -5
didymus wrote:
Jesus expounded this commandment to mean that we are to take care of our father and our mother in their old age. My mother was an alcoholic and physically abusive. I had little respect for her for a long time even as an adult. But when it came time to take care of her when she was old and infirmed I did it with sincerity. I had a clean conscience after her death. This is the way we "honor" our parents.
Roo
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Post by simplyforgiven on Jan 6, 2011 13:09:25 GMT -5
Is the question the Philippian jailer asked Paul and Silas (Acts 16:25-30). Answer... Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Additional scriptures: John 3:16; John 14:6; Romans 10:9,10; Acts 4:12; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. The Sower~ There is nothing you can do to be saved. You couldnt possibly please God. Its as simple as that. |
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Post by mellontes on Jan 6, 2011 13:14:53 GMT -5
Is the question the Philippian jailer asked Paul and Silas (Acts 16:25-30). Answer... Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Additional scriptures: John 3:16; John 14:6; Romans 10:9,10; Acts 4:12; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. The Sower~ There is nothing you can do to be saved. You couldnt possibly please God. Its as simple as that. Not even believing on the Lord Jesus Christ??? Looks like someone deceived that poor jailer into thinking that believing on the Lord Jesus Christ could save him...And what does pleasing God have anything to do with that? |
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Post by simplyforgiven on Jan 6, 2011 13:23:08 GMT -5
There is nothing you can do to be saved. You couldnt possibly please God. Its as simple as that. Not even believing on the Lord Jesus Christ??? Looks like someone deceived that poor jailer into thinking that believing on the Lord Jesus Christ could save him...And what does pleasing God have anything to do with that? Believing and Knowing Christ are two different things. Its like what you said. So was he deceiving the Jailer? of course not, because what Paul words for sure, coming from the Lord, (for whom he knows) Only the Lord can save you, you cannot save yourself. Thats why when you were yet a sinner, he died for you. There is nothing you can do to save yourself, Its Christ who deserves all honor and glory for what he did to save you. Matthew 7 gives a good example who there are those who even did many things in Jesus name, but are "departed because the Lord did not know them, who are children of iniquity." Do you believe in the President of the USA? do you believe he exists? what do you know about him? i can actually google him right now and get a bunch of info on him. his name is obama, he is african american, and he is the president, and etc. Now just because i know "things" and info about the president, would that nessarly mean that they would let me into the white house with a cliam "i know the president" But if the President Obama knew you, and invited you to his house, than it would be easy for you to get in, because the President knows you. ITs the same with Christ. He must know you, you must know him. |
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Post by Once4all on Jan 6, 2011 13:41:00 GMT -5
Is the question the Philippian jailer asked Paul and Silas (Acts 16:25-30). Answer... Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Additional scriptures: John 3:16; John 14:6; Romans 10:9,10; Acts 4:12; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. The Sower~ There is nothing you can do to be saved. You couldnt possibly please God. Its as simple as that. Who couldn't possibly please God? Romans 8:8 NASB (8) and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 1 Thessalonians 4:1-3a NASB (1) Finally then, brethren, we request and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us instruction as to how you ought to walk and please God (just as you actually do walk), that you excel still more. (2) For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. (3) For this is the will of God, your sanctification; It is God's will that you be pleasing to him. Luke 2:14 NASB (14) "Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace among men with whom He is pleased." 1 Corinthians 10:5 NASB (5) Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness. God was even pleased with some of the Jews in the wilderness. Hebrews 13:16 NASB (16) And do not neglect doing good and sharing, for with such sacrifices God is pleased. This myth of it being impossible for anyone to please God is one of the errors of Calvinism, IMO. |
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Post by mellontes on Jan 6, 2011 14:24:45 GMT -5
There is nothing you can do to be saved. You couldnt possibly please God. Its as simple as that. Who couldn't possibly please God? Romans 8:8 NASB (8) and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 1 Thessalonians 4:1-3a NASB (1) Finally then, brethren, we request and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us instruction as to how you ought to walk and please God (just as you actually do walk), that you excel still more. (2) For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. (3) For this is the will of God, your sanctification; It is God's will that you be pleasing to him. Luke 2:14 NASB (14) "Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace among men with whom He is pleased." 1 Corinthians 10:5 NASB (5) Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness. God was even pleased with some of the Jews in the wilderness. Hebrews 13:16 NASB (16) And do not neglect doing good and sharing, for with such sacrifices God is pleased. This myth of it being impossible for anyone to please God is one of the errors of Calvinism, IMO. Amen! Bev. I believe Dennison (I hope that is his first name; I don't like referring to people by their last name) thinks that we believe our pleasing God is a gateway to our salvation. It is not. That is called works. It does not save. Never did, never will. I just a little curious as to why Paul responded in the way that he did by telling the Jailer what he needed to do if there was nothing the jailer could do... And one other unrelated thing...Bev, in your quote of Romans 8:8 do you see how, if the "flesh" cannot please God, that it cannot be related to human form? You gave many verses that said how we in human form can please God. I have been saying for a long time now, that when "flesh" is used in redemptive contexts, it is not a reference to human form but rather is related to the old covenant. Flesh (OC) is often contrasted with the spirit (NC). The whole of the NT is the transistion for this OC body to the NC body... |
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Post by kangaroojack on Jan 6, 2011 14:47:01 GMT -5
Ted said: Dennison, Allyn had said that he believes he has eternal life now. Bev replied saying, "If the believer does well." Sounds like works to me. KJ Love ya Bev.  |
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Post by simplyforgiven on Jan 6, 2011 15:13:56 GMT -5
There is nothing you can do to be saved. You couldnt possibly please God. Its as simple as that. Who couldn't possibly please God? Romans 8:8 NASB (8) and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 1 Thessalonians 4:1-3a NASB (1) Finally then, brethren, we request and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us instruction as to how you ought to walk and please God (just as you actually do walk), that you excel still more. (2) For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. (3) For this is the will of God, your sanctification; It is God's will that you be pleasing to him. Luke 2:14 NASB (14) "Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace among men with whom He is pleased." 1 Corinthians 10:5 NASB (5) Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness. God was even pleased with some of the Jews in the wilderness. Hebrews 13:16 NASB (16) And do not neglect doing good and sharing, for with such sacrifices God is pleased. This myth of it being impossible for anyone to please God is one of the errors of Calvinism, IMO. Romans is very clear, "There is not one Rigtheous" all our good works are like a dirty cloth in the eyes of God. All good comes for God. so all honor and glory belongs to him and him alone. In what way can you please him if in your heart all you have done is rebelled. God is good. And he loved us so much to liberate us. |
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Post by kangaroojack on Jan 6, 2011 15:18:48 GMT -5
There is nothing you can do to be saved. You couldnt possibly please God. Its as simple as that. Who couldn't possibly please God? Romans 8:8 NASB (8) and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 1 Thessalonians 4:1-3a NASB (1) Finally then, brethren, we request and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us instruction as to how you ought to walk and please God (just as you actually do walk), that you excel still more. (2) For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. (3) For this is the will of God, your sanctification; It is God's will that you be pleasing to him. Luke 2:14 NASB (14) "Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace among men with whom He is pleased." 1 Corinthians 10:5 NASB (5) Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness. God was even pleased with some of the Jews in the wilderness. Hebrews 13:16 NASB (16) And do not neglect doing good and sharing, for with such sacrifices God is pleased. This myth of it being impossible for anyone to please God is one of the errors of Calvinism, IMO. Why do you employ scriptures which refer to their requirements when they were still partially under the old covenant? Salvation by works! Christ died in vain! Roo |
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Post by simplyforgiven on Jan 6, 2011 15:29:18 GMT -5
Ted said: Dennison, Allyn had said that he believes he has eternal life now. Bev replied saying, "If the believer does well." Sounds like works to me. KJ Love ya Bev. KJ, Agreed, it Seems so. All Men of God, did Good because it was in Gods will to do so, not that it naturally came from themselves to please God. The Same as the Evil men of the bible, such as Pharaoh who God himself harden his heart, so that he can do his wonders and plagues upon Egypt. Christ came to liberate the lost, and to be the light to the blind. There is not one Righteous. |
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Post by kangaroojack on Jan 6, 2011 16:23:50 GMT -5
SF wrote;
Yes and our sister Bev contradicts new covenant teaching regarding God's remedy.
Christ was our substitute who acted in our behalf. Paul said that it is by HIS obedience that we are made righteous before God.
KJ
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Post by Once4all on Jan 7, 2011 0:29:24 GMT -5
... And one other unrelated thing...Bev, in your quote of Romans 8:8 do you see how, if the "flesh" cannot please God, that it cannot be related to human form? You gave many verses that said how we in human form can please God. I have been saying for a long time now, that when "flesh" is used in redemptive contexts, it is not a reference to human form but rather is related to the old covenant. Flesh (OC) is often contrasted with the spirit (NC). The whole of the NT is the transistion for this OC body to the NC body... "Flesh," as regards "in the flesh" vs. "in the spirit" refers to our behavior, our deeds, and the intentions of our heart. In such contexts, I agree that flesh does not reference human form. We are in the spirit (and God is spirit) when we are obedient to God and thus pleasing to God. |
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Post by Once4all on Jan 7, 2011 0:31:13 GMT -5
Salvation by works! Christ died in vain! Roo Get off it, Bro. |
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