mikew
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Post by mikew on Oct 27, 2008 14:22:28 GMT -5
... Moses under inspiration foretold of a coming day when a prophet would be raised like unto himself. At that time He is to be heeded in what He says and they are to hearken unto His words. This prophet was none other than the Lord Jesus. Deuteronomy 18:15 - The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; Deuteronomy 18:17-19 - And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. Does this sound like a postponement? No, not a chance. They were to obey Him but they chose not to and were judged for it. It is all about the Word of God and our adherence to it. You brought up an interesting passage for a discussion on resurrection. I have been interested in passages about the resurrection of Jesus. And when a passage in Daniel speaks of "standing up" or this passage in Deut that speaks of "raising up," there is the possibility that the passage is talking about resurrection. But note that this doesn't mean that such passages would predominantly be about resurrection. Sometimes you have to look at the wordking and ask whether the wording is most natural. For example, in the Deuteronomy passage, wouldn't it make more sense for God to say that He would "send forth" a prophet like Moses instead of saying "raise up"? I have been interested in the Septuagint recently. Part of the reason is that the LXX matches better with the New Testament Greek. And the word for the "raise up" in the Deut 18 is anastasel (vs 15) and anastaso (vs 18) --best as I can tell since I'm not really a student of the Greek. This is similar or same to the word for resurrection in John 5:28-29 |
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Post by mellontes on Oct 27, 2008 16:50:35 GMT -5
The thing that stuck out wrong or overly emphasized was Don's idea on the resurrection of Israel. I don't know if such is a strong view among full prets but it was something I hadn't heard, at least not in such force and repetition. At least the debate was about resurretion. And maybe I will be able to check into some details about what Preston is proposing here. There may be some passages in the NT about the resurrection of Israel, but I can't see Paul talking much about the resurrection of Israel to his Gentile audiences. Mike, it all boils down to what Israel means to us and there are several choices: Fleshy, ethnic, national Israel as a nation, a remnant of of this nation by faith, or all true Israel by faith. And no question about it, the resurrection was promised to Israel, but was it a nation or was it by Abraham's seed? Romans 4:13, 16; Romans 9:7-8; Galatians 3:7, 9, 16, 29 The Gentiles were grafted into the same promise and became coheirs. If the Jews didn't reject Christ's message I am afraid we might not be so well off... Have you listened to any of David Curtis' messages? May I recommend 406.mp3, 407.mp3 and 408.mp3 from: feeds.feedburner.com/BereanBibleChurchYou will have to scroll down a few panes...May I also recommend that you set aside some time to listen to them consecutively in one sitting - difficult yes, but very beneficial. Blessings, Mellontes |
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Post by mellontes on Oct 27, 2008 16:54:19 GMT -5
You brought up an interesting passage for a discussion on resurrection. I have been interested in passages about the resurrection of Jesus. And when a passage in Daniel speaks of "standing up" or this passage in Deut that speaks of "raising up," there is the possibility that the passage is talking about resurrection. But note that this doesn't mean that such passages would predominantly be about resurrection. Sometimes you have to look at the wordking and ask whether the wording is most natural. For example, in the Deuteronomy passage, wouldn't it make more sense for God to say that He would "send forth" a prophet like Moses instead of saying "raise up"? I have been interested in the Septuagint recently. Part of the reason is that the LXX matches better with the New Testament Greek. And the word for the "raise up" in the Deut 18 is anastasel (vs 15) and anastaso (vs 18) --best as I can tell since I'm not really a student of the Greek. This is similar or same to the word for resurrection in John 5:28-29 Mike, I never even get it a second attention as to whether this could be a resurrection passage, and I doubt if it is. To me, it is simply Moses prophesying of one (Jesus) who would come forth as a prophet whose words must be adhered to - or else... Mellontes |
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mikew
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Post by mikew on Oct 27, 2008 17:13:42 GMT -5
Mike, it all boils down to what Israel means to us and there are several choices: Fleshy, ethnic, national Israel as a nation, a remnant of of this nation by faith, or all true Israel by faith. And no question about it, the resurrection was promised to Israel, but was it a nation or was it by Abraham's seed? Romans 4:13, 16; Romans 9:7-8; Galatians 3:7, 9, 16, 29 Blessings, Mellontes The option I found in Romans was that Paul had shown that the focus or meaning of "Israel" was actually not the full bloodline descendants but only the bloodline descendants who were "of the promise" (Rom 9:6-13) This understanding basically is the basis for Paul's defense of the Jews in chapters 9 to 11 and the basis of Paul's effort to show that God was faithful to His promises to the Israel. |
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mikew
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Post by mikew on Oct 28, 2008 14:14:30 GMT -5
Mike, I never even get it a second attention as to whether this could be a resurrection passage, and I doubt if it is. To me, it is simply Moses prophesying of one (Jesus) who would come forth as a prophet whose words must be adhered to - or else... Mellontes Certainly. I'm just presenting the idea. People don't have to agree to it. Though there are apparently verses that point to the resurrection of Jesus -- of course, as in many passages of scripture, the understanding may have occurred only subsequent to the events. Even myself ... I'm just aware of the possibility that this could be seen as a reference to Christ's resurrection. |
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mikew
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Post by mikew on Oct 28, 2008 20:06:27 GMT -5
Mike, it all boils down to what Israel means to us and there are several choices: Fleshy, ethnic, national Israel as a nation, a remnant of of this nation by faith, or all true Israel by faith. And no question about it, the resurrection was promised to Israel, Hmmm. This idea has only partial truth. The Dan 12:2 passage could be directed to the Israel bloodline but the Dan 12:13 seems to refer to the resurrection which we shall enjoy. There were some attempts in Curtis' lectures to make a connection to say that the resurrection is connected with the promises to Israel -- this didn't seem to match with the passages in Acts. It sounds like Curtis was just reactive to his former dispy background. He gave some reasons why he thought that the Church was the continuation of Israel but didn't seem to give substance to the idea which makes sense cause it wouldn't be logical for Luke to contradict Paul. These errors seemed to be made by mistaking the context of passages in Acts.
Oh yeah. The issue that was of importance was that Curtis brought up the problem of Christian Zionism. In a sense he also brought up the effects of Christian attitude that tended to support the US government in protecting the country Israel even to the demise of Christians in the Middle East. |
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