Ezekiel: Old or New Covenant?

Roo,

I was hoping you could elaborate further on this "everlasting" context...

Call me lazy or call me tired, but I gave a quick search on "sacrifice" and could not find one instance of it in Ezekiel 43. Is it a different chapter? And if not, could you be specific as to which verses?

Forget that request. I looked up sin offering and found a few verses. I also found sin offering five times in Ezekiel 45. Is Ezekiel 45 fulfilled before Christ?

I think this is one of those passages that requires reading more of its near context to understand what it means:

24 "And My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd; and they will walk in My ordinances, and keep My statutes, and observe them. 25 "And they shall live on the land that I gave to Jacob My servant, in which your fathers lived; and they will live on it, they, and their sons, and their sons' sons, forever; and David My servant shall be their prince forever.

[/i][/u] 26 "And I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will place them and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in their midst forever. 27 "My dwelling place also will be with them; and I will be their God, and they will be My people. 28 "And the nations will know that I am the Lord who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forever."'" Ezekiel 37:24-28 (NASB77)[/blockquote]

David was already dead for more than 350 years by the time Ezekiel started prophesying about his return to the throne to rule a united Israel and Judah again forever.

I think we can chalk this one up to "as yet unfulfilled."

Didymus wrote:
Wow! Where do you see any mention of the blood of Christ in Ezekiel 37? In fact, David the prince will have to offer a sacrifice for his own sins:



The "prince" who offers a sin offering for himself is the same "prince" (David) of chapter 37.


Are you harassing me again Didy doo?

Roo

22 And on that day the prince shall prepare for himself and for all the people of the land a bull for a sin offering.

Ezekiel 45:22


The "prince" is David (Ezekiel 37:25).

I'll have to look more closely at the context of chapter 45, but it's entirely possible - not unlike the book of Daniel - that two prophecies can be separated by a number of years and thus not related at all. Without looking into it further, however, I'll have to refrain from making any further comment.

22 And on that day the prince shall prepare for himself and for all the people of the land a bull for a sin offering.

Ezekiel 45:22


The "prince" is David (Ezekiel 37:25).

OK, I looked at both Ezekiel 37 and 45 and here's what I'm seeing:

And they have dwelt on the land that I gave to My servant, to Jacob, In which your fathers have dwelt, And they have dwelt on it, they and their sons, And their son's sons--unto the age, And David My servant is their prince--to the age. Ezekiel 37:25 (YLT)

|5522| And they will live |5921| on |0776| the land that |5414| I have given |5650| to My servant, |3290| to Jacob, where |7931| lived in it your forefathers. |5522| And they will live on it. |1992| They |1121| and their sons |1121| and the sons of |1121| their sons |5769| forever.

|1732| And David |5650| My servant {will be} |5387| a ruler to them |5769| forever.

I've posted two literal translations (the second with Strong's numbers) to start this study off on the right foot.

The first point I want to make here is that the prince and princes of Ezekiel 45 are not the same, specific prince mentioned in Ezekiel 37.

The word in both places means "prince" or "ruler." The word used in both places is Strong's 5387, and here's what it means:

nasi: naw-see'; from <H5375> (nasa'); properly an exalted one, i.e. a king or sheik; also a rising mist :- captain, chief, cloud, governor, prince, ruler, vapour.

This is one of those many cases where the context of a passage determines the way the words are used in it.

In Ezekiel 37, David is named specifically as he who would be a ruler ("nasi", prince) to the united kingdom of Israel. However, when we look at the usage of the word "nasi" in Ezekiel 45, no such specific name is given to any of the princes mentioned there.

Here are a few examples:

7 "And the prince shall have land on either side of the holy allotment and the property of the city, adjacent to the holy allotment and the property of the city, on the west side toward the west and on the east side toward the east, and in length comparable to one of the portions, from the west border to the east border. 8 "This shall be his land for a possession in Israel; so My princes shall no longer oppress My people, but they shall give the rest of the land to the house of Israel according to their tribes." Ezekiel 45:7-8 (NASB77)

This short passage is referring to the part of land the rulers of the people would possess near the Temple (not unlike a church parsonage today where a church's pastor and family live). The rulers, in this context, are the Priests and the singular prince in verse 7 is the Chief Priest.

(Remember, the kingdoms of Israel and Judah were theocracies, and so those in the priesthood were rulers of the people. This is further evinced in Luke 23:13 when Pilate summons the "chief priests and the "rulers.")

Further, the idea that the "nasi" in Ezekiel 45 are priests is born out later in the chapter when sacrifices are mentioned. However, there is no sacrifice mentioned in chapter 37.

Furthermore, chapter 37 is pointing to a time of peace for Israel under the rule of David. Note verse 8 above: so My princes shall no longer oppress My people, but they shall give the rest of the land to the house of Israel according to their tribes."

Ezekiel is prophesying against the corruption of the "rulers" (the priests) in verse 8 and continues in verse 9 when he writes:

9 'Thus says the Lord God, " Enough, you princes (nasi) of Israel; put away violence and destruction, and practice justice and righteousness. Stop your expropriations from My people," declares the Lord God. 10 "You shall have just balances, a just ephah, and a just bath. Ezekiel 45:9-10 (NASB77)

Again, "nasi" (Strong's 5387) is used both to describe David in chapter 37, and "princes" in chapter 45. The difference is that the princes in chapter 45 are chided for their corruption, while David, the prince, will rule during a time of unprecedented peace for Israel.

Finally, we see who the prince is in 45:16:

"And it shall be the prince's part to provide the burnt offerings, the grain offerings, and the libations, at the feasts, on the new moons, and on the sabbaths, at all the appointed feasts of the house of Israel; he shall provide the sin offering, the grain offering, the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make atonement for the house of Israel." Ezekiel 45:17 (NASB77)

This passage can only refer to the chief priest, as he was the only one who could make an offering of atonement for the people. And from which tribe did the chief priest and priests come?

Levi.

From which tribe did David come?

Judah.

Again, the context of the two chapters indicates they are dealing with completely separate issues, and so the usage of the word "nasi" in both places must be taken in context.

Now obviously, there is only one of two ways David could reign over Israel having been dead more than 350 years when Ezekiel was writing chapter 37: either the reference to David in chapter 37 refers to his heir, Jesus Christ, or it refers to the resurrected king David of the millennial kingdom. In either case, I don't believe the prince or princes in chapter 45 refer to David, the prince, of chapter 37. The context of these chapters argues against conflating them that way.

Hope this helps.

Stormcrow said:

The "prince" (David) of Ezekiel 37 was to rule over Ezekiel's contemporaries. Please note what I posted on another forum site:


God told Ezekiel that David would reign over the children of Israel who had already been scattered among the nations:


Author Harry Whittaker correctly says that Ezekiel cannot have a future fulfillment and that the "prince" is a succession of princes from the Davidic line:
Recap:

1. The "prince" (David) was to rule over Ezekiel's contemporaries.

2. The "prince" (David) was to rule over them who had already been scattered among the nations.

3. The "prince" (David) was the succession of princes from the Davidic line.


Again, the prophecies of Ezekiel 37 are contemporaneous with the offering of animal sacrifices for sin. You must conclude therefore that animal sacrifies will be reinstituted and that the prince (David) will be required to offer a bullock for his own sin.

This is the INESCAPABLE conclusion of the futurist view of Ezekiel.


Roo

Then you need to go to chapter 12 which says that EVERY vision was to be fulfilled in the days of Ezekiel's contemporaries:


The people were saying that the time was far off for the fulfillment of Ezekiel's visions. But God told Ezekiel to tell the people that the days were "AT HAND" for the fulfillment of "EVERY vision." God told Ezekiel to tell the people that the visions would not be postponed but would come to pass "in YOUR days."

God told Ezekiel to tell the people that "NONE of His words would be postponed."

I am just telling you what God told Ezekiel to tell the people of his day. Therefore, Ezekiel was fulfilled BEFORE Christ.


Roo

Roo, you've gotta be kidding, right? Are you using Ezekiel chaper 12 to say that other visions further on in Ezekiel have been fulfilled?

If that is the case, I really think you need to give that extra consideration.

Allyn, perhaps a further explanation is in order. Roo's point is that all of Ezekiel's visions were fulfilled BEFORE Christ's incarnation...Here is his quote:

"Ted, the animal sacrifices in chapter 43 are contemporaneous with the prophecies of chapter 37. Therefore, ALL of Ezekiel had been fulfilled before Christ's first coming to take away sin."

Read more: livebytr.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=prophecy&thread=703&page=1#7085#ixzz1AkZGDLB8

I remember a wise man telling me that "all" meant "all of whatever is in view" (livebytr.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=prophecy&thread=715&page=3#7764)

I believe you have broadened the "view" too much.

Allyn, what do you mean by "this" (your first word)? Some chapter and verses would be nice as to where you are coming from.

All this started from me stating that Paul was quoting Ezekiel 37:26-28 in reference to the church in 2 Cor 6:16:

2 Cor 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Will some one then please explain to me why Paul quoted from the OT, where he specifically quoted from, and why he would use that particular passage in regard to the present, post 30AD temple?

Ted, the chapter and verses start right there in chapter 43 and go through chapter 44 and starts with verse 10 of 44 saying:

10 “And the Levites who went far from Me, when Israel went astray, who strayed away from Me after their idols, they shall bear their iniquity. 11 Yet they shall be ministers in My sanctuary, as gatekeepers of the house and ministers of the house; they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister to them. 12 Because they ministered to them before their idols and caused the house of Israel to fall into iniquity, therefore I have raised My hand in an oath against them,” says the Lord GOD, “that they shall bear their iniquity. 13 And they shall not come near Me to minister to Me as priest, nor come near any of My holy things, nor into the Most Holy Place; but they shall bear their shame and their abominations which they have committed. 14 Nevertheless I will make them keep charge of the temple, for all its work, and for all that has to be done in it.
15 “But the priests, the Levites, the sons of Zadok, who kept charge of My sanctuary when the children of Israel went astray from Me, they shall come near Me to minister to Me; and they shall stand before Me to offer to Me the fat and the blood,” says the Lord GOD. 16 “They shall enter My sanctuary, and they shall come near My table to minister to Me, and they shall keep My charge. 17 And it shall be, whenever they enter the gates of the inner court, that they shall put on linen garments; no wool shall come upon them while they minister within the gates of the inner court or within the house.

Maybe I have had too much dispy teaching...

Charles Ryrie has this sectional heading over Ezekiel chapter 40:

"Prophesies concerning Israel in the millennial kingdom 40:1-48:35"

Now, of course, I don't believe their millennial views but perhaps I have attached this time frame to the 30-70 AD period...

Ezekiel is not the easiest book to understand. I will take what you said under advisement.

(Sorry for the edit - meant to use the quote button)