"When that which is perfect is come"

Amen, Robin. That's what my personal study determined, also. That which is perfect is love.

Here's something I posted three years ago (almost to the day!) on CARM:

Perfect love comes for each when you are living it in this way:

4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant,
5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered,
6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth;
7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
(1 Corinthians 13)

Paul explains what "the perfect" is quite clearly. Note first:

9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part;
10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
(1 Corinthians 13)

He started off by giving examples of the partial (without love):

1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love (the perfect), I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal (partial).
2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love (the perfect), I am nothing (partial).
3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love (the perfect), it profits me nothing (partial).
(1 Corinthians 13)


To be partial is to be incomplete. We are incomplete without love.

I see you are cannibalizing my website.

No matter, I don't see how love can accomplish "this." But, then you knew I would have answer for this didn't you?

Okay, look at this way. The word perfect means fulfillment or completion. Now every full preterists should know what has been fulfilled or completed. Therein lies the answer to what the perfect is in I Corinthians 13.10.

I see, you can pick on me any time you want, challenge just about everything I say, and I can't respond. If you take a fair look at all those things I said you have listed, you will see I was responding to something. But since you have picked on me since the day I arrived, practically, you would care to look at things that was said to me prior. Several times it was insinuated that I don't know what I'm talking about. Theo was first, then you. The responses I got from others was mixed, so I tend to think they were being honest. And, many of the statements I made that you have listed above were general statements, not directed at any one person, with the exception of Theo, and you. That's because, Theo has attacked me and you have attacked me. The others have not.

But I do have a flaw which I am working on, I just can't tolerate my perception of stupidity. But more than that I can't tolerate bullies.

The very first thread I responded to was yours, concerning "Covenant Contrasts." I don't suppose you remember the kind words I said to you. Can you come up with just one kind thing you said to me?

Mell, if you've been trying to drive me out of here, you are doing a good job. But it would be easier if you just ask me to leave.

I just noticed the comments you pulled out of my website. What is so harmful about asking someone how they are? And, they were all.

Folks, Spring is a cherished member of my website, in fact she has her own forum called, "News from the Philippines." And the other two comments are simply out of context. Go to my website and see for yourself. You don't have to take my word for it.

That is pretty low. To go on someone's website and pull statements out of context, and use it against the owner of that website on another website. That is real low. Besides, it is my website and I have the right to control what goes on it. Don't I?

Ted, here is something I grabbed from an email I received from Jerry Bernard (a full preterist):

1st Corinthians 12, 13 and 14 go together. The entire passage was about "gifts" for that age. In chapters 12 and 13, Paul explains the public exercise of spiritual gifts. Chapter 12 is all about the spiritual gifts. Chapter 13 is about something that is more excellent than any of the "gifts." It is "love." He explains that love will never play out and become non-operative. However, on the other hand when the present economy that "gifts" were a part of came to full maturity ("Perfect"), all would stop and become non-operative, except "love." The words "perfect is come" in 13:10 refer to the end or maturity of an age. An age that had come to full grown status (maturity). The "gifts" were exercised because they were to prove to the unbelieving Jews that the end had come and they were to turn to the Lord Jesus Christ (14:21-25). For He was the end of the law to everyone that believes. Prophecy was coming to an end (13:8). Tongues were about to cease (13:8). Immature knowledge was coming to an end when adult knowledge would take its place. These "gifts" were all "in part" because they were connected to an age that was ending and had no more use. Jesus was part of the "last days" (Hebrews 1:1).

Here is an older (2005) but more detailed breakdown of why I conclude that "the perfect" is love. This was an email I sent to the preacher at my church.

It's long, so I don't have expectations of anyone reading all the way through it, but it's here if you want to.
_______________________________________
Hi, Scott.

I've never really been comfortable with the Church of Christ interpretation of 1 Corinthians 13:10, that "that which is perfect" (KJV) or "perfection" (NIV) refers to the completed NT canon of scripture. It always seemed a very contrived interpretation.

After my first study into it, I came away believing that "the perfect" referred to either (1) the second coming or (2) our own glorified state at the second coming. I did not believe it referred to Jesus because "the perfect" refers to an "it," not a "who."

A couple of months ago as I was reading 1 Cor 13 again, it just fell into place and seemed obvious to me from the context that "that which is perfect" is LOVE... the whole context of Paul's discussion there. There are several things that support it, which I'll try to cover clearly below by interspersing my comments following specific verses.

1 Corinthians 12:31b - And now I will show you the most excellent way.

BEV - The last verse of 1 Cor 12, after a discussion of spiritual gifts, Paul leads into his discussion of love by referring to it as "the most excellent way." (Strongs 5236 - 1) a throwing beyond; 2) metaph. a) superiority, excellence, pre-eminence b) beyond measure, exceedingly, preeminently c) beyond all measure.)

1 Corinthians 13 (NIV)

1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

BEV - In other words, imperfect without love.

2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

BEV - In other words, imperfect without love.

3 If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

BEV - Imperfect without love.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails.

BEV - Verses 4 - 8 describe the perfection of love.

8b But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,

BEV - Verse 9. In other words, imperfectly. The Revised Standard Version (RSV) and the NRSV translate verse 9 this way:

(1 Cor 13:9-RSV) For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect;

10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.

BEV - The Greek word translated as "imperfect" in verse 10 in NIV is the same Greek word (meros) that is translated "in part" in the previous verse. Now recall verses 1-3 where Paul says that our gifts are nothing without love. Love is the perfecting ingredient. All of these gifts (knowledge, prophecy, tongues, etc.) will cease/be stilled/pass away if they are not combined with love (verse 8b-9).

11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.


BEV - At the bottom of this email I included the whole passage of John's in 1 John 4 about love and how important it is. But verse 18 is the important one for this discussion. It says, "There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." (NIV)

See, it is love that makes perfect. John's discussion of love agrees with Paul, who said that "when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears."

God is love (1 John 4:16)
God is perfect (Matt 5:48)

Matthew 5:48 "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect" is the concluding remark by Jesus following several verses about love, especially loving our enemies. Notice, too, that he follows that statement immediately (Matt 6) with words about giving to the needy. In Matthew 19:21, Jesus told the rich young ruler, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven."

In Colossians 3, Paul again speaks of the perfecting quality of love (specifically verse 14):

12 Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13 Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.

At the end of 2 Corinthians, Paul calls believers to aim for perfection: "Finally, brothers, good-by. Aim for perfection, listen to my appeal, be of one mind, live in peace. And the God of love and peace will be with you."

In Philippians 3, Paul says that he is not yet perfect, but he presses on toward the goal:

12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37 Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." (Matthew 22:36-40)

12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. (Matthew 24:12-13) So how does one "stand firm"? By not letting your love grow cold. Gives you another way to look at the meaning of "lukewarm" as applied to the church at Laodicea in Rev 3. Their love was growing cold and in danger of being removed from the body of Christ (spit out of his mouth).

I took this a lot farther than I intended to at the beginning, and could probably keep going.

Your comments are welcome, of course!

Bev


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1 John 4:7-21

7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. 10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. 11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

13 We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God. 16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. 17 In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

19 We love because he first loved us. 20 If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 21 And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.

Bev I am going to give more time to this post but this great. It all has to do with when the Dayspring arises in our hearts - when the glory of the Lord and His love fills us. I still find myself worried about death and dying but am coming more and more to see that day in a new light. Hope must transcend fear, and faith is the way love works in us to bring us there as we grow in our knowledge of Him.

Fantastic post! Amen!

Sometimes we want things to fit into our systematic ideas so much that we miss the simple yet powerful truths.

Sheldon, thanks for reading it!

Allyn, what I wrote in 2005 was before I became a preterist, so there are some fine points that I might change if I were to re-examine it closely. What I posted in my Reply #9 on page 1 was the same general viewpoint, but from a preterist perspective (written by someone else). I have something else to look for on this topic that I think might shed more light, but while I search for it you might read Reply #9 if you haven't already.

It isn't that "knowledge, prophecy, tongues, etc." will pass away, it's that them being only "in part" will pass away.

Knowledge by itself is merely collecting intellectual wealth. Prophecy by itself is merely reciting what other say about God. Tongues by itself is merely noise. These are not complete or mature by themselves; it takes God's perfect love to make them whole (i.e. no longer in part). Why? Based on the surrounding verses, I think it has to do with them being done for others instead of yourself.

Knowledge with God's love allows us to know God relationally ("No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.")

Prophecy with God's love allows us to declare God based on our own personal experience and revelation of Him, that is, by His inspiration, not on what others say or feel. Without God's love we cannot fully "edify, exhort, and comfort". ("Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.")

Tongues (be it a 'heavenly' language or any language) with God's love allows us to worship God in Spirit and Truth, that is, perfect love in Christ Jesus.

When perfect love comes, these things are no longer done in part, but in fullness. It does remind me of "your will be done on earth as it is in heaven".

There's some of my thoughts on it.

I wouldn't exactly call this an interpretation (meaning all the stuff I wrote other than 'perfect' referring to the love of God). Those are just some thoughts on the matter.

Here are some more;

"May the Lord direct your hearts into God's love and Christ's perseverance." 2 Thess 3:5

"But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him" 1 John 2:5

"Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God." 1 John 4:7

"Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life." Jude 1:21

I like that, stormcrow. Its very much what I hold to.